911 and the Propaganda Model

[mjd1982]

Well, mjd, if all you want to do is complain about the problem without offering or even discussing solutions, let's return to the topic of 9/11.

Where have I complained? I dont think your reading comp is up to much i'm afraid... I have illustrated a propensity in media which points to a conclusion, and applied this to 911.

For which you offer WTC7 as an example. But the details of the collapse of WTC7 are only detrimental to power if WTC7 was indeed demolished as an "inside job." In the context of the 9/11 consipracy argument, this is begging the question.

That's the wrong way round. WTC7 is a rudimentary detail in the most reported event of all time, that was censored. Under the PM, this leads us to a likely conclusion.

Your original comment was based on your interpretation of a comparison of very different wars in different centuries. It is, at best, an opinion. Honest and balanced media would report it as such, along with contrary opinions.

I dont know what wars you are referring to here.

Which, I agree, they have largely failed to do. This is a deplorable situation. It's a shame you have no solutions to offer.

This thread is not about solutions, its about the applicatin to 911.

No, even accepting your premise of MSM censorship of news does not lead to any conclusion about 9/11. Affirming the consequent fallacy:

- If 9/11 was an inside job, news of it would be censored.
- News of 9/11 was censored.
- Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job. [invalid]

That is not my formulation

- News of 9/11 was censored.
- The censoring of news of 9/11 indicates power interests being protected.
- Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job. [?]

That is my formulation.

That one's just a non sequitur. Even accepting the stated premises, your ideas about which power interests were being protected, and what they were being protected from, are still pure speculation.

Aren't big insurance companies a power interest? They were stuck with the bill. Why weren't their interests protected?

#1 You state that it is a non sequitur, and then you back it up with statements that have nothing to do with a notion of non sequiturs. That is a non sequitur. I have told you many times who the powerful interests are. These are the ones who have benefitted from 9/11.

#2 Insurance companies werent stuck with the bill. Re insurance, and re re insurance were. Their interests are insignificant compared to the major corporate political interests.

When presented a web of fanciful "what-ifs" and political theories and urged to reach a conclusion from them, I look instead to facts based on physical laws that can be relied upon. Such as, that demolition charges, in order to perform their function of breaking steel beams with intense pulses of gas pressure, must make a lot of a certain kind of noise. All the political theory in the world can't disconnect that dot.

This isnt the point for the moment. The point is the nature of media behaviour around 911, and the conclusions we can draw from this based on what we know about media behaviour. This is very clear.

Reharding the charges, I would state briefly that Jowenko, Bachmann, Schneider and Fontana are all experts who had no qualms with the level of sound at the collapse; further, there are eyewitnesses who menioned "a clap of thunder", and "a shockwave ripping through the building", followed by its collapse.

But this is not the issue of the thread; it will be discussed on the CF thread shortly.

 

[DGM]

Reharding the charges, I would state briefly that Jowenko, Bachmann, Schneider and Fontana are all experts who had no qualms with the level of sound at the collapse; further, there are eyewitnesses who menioned "a clap of thunder", and "a shockwave ripping through the building", followed by its collapse.

This perfectly describes the collapse.
The building started collapsing 10+ seconds before it could be seen from the ground (as seen in the video). The east penthouse disappeared into the building silently? Do you really think this could happen? I know you are ignorant to the engineering aspects of a collapse but this is ridicules.

 

[SDC]

Errr....

One of the most absurd things anyone has ever said to me.

Then you have had an extraordinarily easy life. (In terms of things being said to you.)

When I say, "Errrrr........", my daughter says "what do we say?" and I reply, "Excuse me."

Come on, young sprat, admit your adherence to Marxism-Leninism. Lenin wasn't embarrassed by his politics; why should you be?

 

[SDC]

Sorry, what is the relevance of any of this?

Before you answer, note that pedantry is the sign of desperation.

So you believe that correct understanding of the "Nuremberg laws" that is, "die Nurnberger Gesetze," have no significance?

"Nuremberg laws" = "Nuremberg trials"?? Correct information is irrelevant?

 

[mjd1982]

Then you have had an extraordinarily easy life. (In terms of things being said to you.)

When I say, "Errrrr........", my daughter says "what do we say?" and I reply, "Excuse me."

Come on, young sprat, admit your adherence to Marxism-Leninism. Lenin wasn't embarrassed by his politics; why should you be?

sorry, how do I get that laughing dog emoticon thing?

 

[mjd1982]

So you believe that correct understanding of the "Nuremberg laws" that is, "die Nurnberger Gesetze," have no significance?

"Nuremberg laws" = "Nuremberg trials"?? Correct information is irrelevant?

Well its actually the Nuremberg Principles, but never mind.

 

[SDC]

Errr.... One of the most absurd things anyone has ever said to me.

Come on, you saucy young rascal, please... Do you agree that your 9/11 statements based on programmatic Marxism-Leninism or not? You can insult me, attack me, I don't care... I am simply curious.

God knows, I miss it so... The Marxist-Leninists, with their banners, their certainty that they, and only they, have the True Word... Please tell me that you have that. It will return me to my youth. To my salad days. When I was green in judgement.

 

[mjd1982]

This perfectly describes the collapse.
The building started collapsing 10+ seconds before it could be seen from the ground (as seen in the video). The east penthouse disappeared into the building silently? Do you really think this could happen? I know you are ignorant to the engineering aspects of a collapse but this is ridicules.

I dont think the collapse of the penthouse would have sounded like "a clap of thunder", no. Nor do I think it would have caused a shockwave. What I didnt mention is that the witness then says "the bottom of the building gave out", and then it collapsed. Is this also the penthouse's fault?

 

[SDC]

Well its actually the Nuremberg Principles, but never mind.

GESETZE? DIE NURNBERGER GESETZE??? They are merely "principles"???

Those were the basic anti-semitic laws passed in 1933. Gesetze = laws, not principles. Gesetz = Law, commandment, decree, precept, strophe. (Cassell's dictionary).

You say those are "principles"?? By these "laws," people were killed, tortured, imprisoned. Goodness gracious golly, the cat is out of the bag, the frost is on the pumpkin, and the jig is up. You have revealed yourself.

And it should be written as "it's," because it is a contraction, not "its," which is the possessive.

 

[DGM]

I dont think the collapse of the penthouse would have sounded like "a clap of thunder", no. Nor do I think it would have caused a shockwave. What I didnt mention is that the witness then says "the bottom of the building gave out", and then it collapsed. Is this also the penthouse's fault?

Duh! The initial collapse is believed to have started between floors 7 and 13. Do you think the penthouse just melted into the building or do you suppose there may have been collapsing inside the building. Research is your friend you should try it sometime.

 

[mjd1982]

GESETZE? DIE NURNBERGER GESETZE??? They are merely "principles"???

Those were the basic anti-semitic laws passed in 1933. Gesetze = laws, not principles. Gesetz = Law, commandment, decree, precept, strophe. (Cassell's dictionary).

You say those are "principles"?? By these "laws," people were killed, tortured, imprisoned. Goodness gracious golly, the cat is out of the bag, the frost is on the pumpkin, and the jig is up. You have revealed yourself.

And it should be written as "it's," because it is a contraction, not "its," which is the possessive.

Listen- go take some basic english reading classes, and then come back.

The Nuremberg Principles were those established to try the Nazis. This is what was being mentioned.

You have difficulties with German too - Nuernberger.

Go home, learn english, and then come back to me when you have done so. Not before.

ETA- Oh, and well done on the below!

 

[mjd1982]

Duh! The initial collapse is believed to have started between floors 7 and 13. Do you think the penthouse just melted into the building or do you suppose there may have been collapsing inside the building. Research is your friend you should try it sometime.

The point, loathe though I am to repeat it to the obtuse, is that this collapse would not sound like a clap of thunder.

 

[8den]

1. Your 1st para is your opinion, and has no validity in an argument, I'm afriad.

Says the man who argues that the PNAC is a blueprint for 911, based on his interpretation of the language of the document.

I work in news rooms, please explain, in detail, whom you think in news organisations is the one suppressing 911 information, and how?

2. Your 2nd para misses the point that has been made over and over and over again. Please read my posts- it will save you time. The sort of people who will work in these systems (like you, probably) are hired because they are not the sort of people to believe/find out about/report these things. Check out this instance of Andrew Marr being exposed for one example.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FSuaGIKTaEA

Condescending and patronizing lecturing me on a world you have no experience in, and I do, won't get you far MJD. Who's doing this hiring? Are you suggesting that every journalist/editor/librarian/producer/newsreader in the MSM are hired because they are gullible fools who are believe what they are spoon fed? Have you any idea of the hiring process I went through. Would you care to imagine, or guess?

Tell me MJD what system is used to establish whether one is suitable for these "systems"? What questions are asked? What criteria is drawn up? Can you answer that?

Finally I find it hilarious that you consistently link to someone who rejects your theories, in your attempts to suggest they support you.

 

[DGM]

The point, loathe though I am to repeat it to the obtuse, is that this collapse would not sound like a clap of thunder.

And you know this from your vast knowledge of what? What does a structural collapse sound like exactly. I've heard one (live) how about you? I've been to a couple of CD no "clap of thunder" there.

 

[A W Smith]

Someone's angling for a banana...

I was out again today at Speakers Corner. I did it again. A crowd of ~50. 6 people knew about it; no one could believe they didnt know. I could do this all day every day.

Incidentally, I was also supported by a chap from this site- http://www.ricenpeas.com/ - used to work for the BBC and C4- he quit because he said their practices of reporting were "unethical", i.e. propagandistic

WTF did I tell you just yesterday?!! the crowd you are going to get at a speakers corner is already going to be agenda driven. Sorry your attempt to support your affirming the consequent fallacy FAILS. The desperation of truthers like you amuses me. Grasping for that last thin straw and failing so badly. Its over for your movement. 7 was a property loss six years ago so get over yourself. look at the lack of coverage you all are getting this weekend on the media.
i got your dog laugh right here.

 

[SDC]

Listen- go take some basic english reading classes, and then come back.

The Nuremberg Principles were those established to try the Nazis. This is what was being mentioned.

You have difficulties with German too - Nuernberger.

Go home, learn english, and then come back to me when you have done so. Not before.

ETA- Oh, and well done on the below!

With regard to your new signature, thanks, I'm pleased to be so recognized. I blush and simper. May I have a badge? Heaven only knows what happened to my "baby Lenin" badges; I bought my first outside Leningrad. Too many moves. Tender little foolish memories.

You referred to "Nuremberg laws." Which translates as "die Nurnberger Gesetze..." Which were the Nazi laws against the Jews. Nothing else. Are you never in error? Will you ever admit it?

With regard to German letters.. No, it isn't "Nuernberger." At least not in proper German. The "u" is actually "u [umlaut]," and some folks, struggling with their keyboards, make into "ue." That is not required, however. Either way is accepted, with us Anglophones and our limited keyboards. I forgive you.

Give my love to Lenin, would you? God knows I miss his statues. I note that you have not directly addressed my evil, vile accusations that you start from Marxist-Leninist principles. Would you kindly say something about that?

In Odes... niet fargess...

 

[SDC]

In Odes... niet fargess...

Oh, all right, I apologize. That last phrase is from a popular (?) Yiddish song of about 100 years ago; "In Odessa... don't forget..." Sheesh.

 

[SpitfireIX]

The point, loathe though I am to repeat it to the obtuse, is that this collapse would not sound like a clap of thunder.

I point this out only because of the mind-boggling level of arrogance and condescension you continually display in your insistence that other posters should learn how to read or otherwise use proper English. The word you are after here is loath, with no e on the end, which means "very reluctant or hesitant." The word loathe is a verb, as in "I loathe conspiracism and conspiracists." See here.

Your arrogance is all the more absurd considering that upthread you confused the terms "Nuremberg Principles" "and "Nuremberg Laws," which, as noted, are two completely opposite concepts.

 

[chillzero]

Please keep this thread on topic, and civil, or it will be moved to moderated status.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[stilicho]

Just a point on Sarbox, though it is not at all relevant- do you know the percentage of reports that are taken through to a successful prosecution? Was in the FT the other day, it's miniscule.

But this isnt what we're interested in. Interests of important power structures are things like geo political strategy, suppression of working classes, government sponsored genocide etc. Petty theft means nothing (the 3rd time ive told you know?)

Although you say that SARBOX is irrelevant, you try to explain that it isn't effective because of the lack of prosecution. SARBOX has very little to do with prosecuting "capitalists". It has to do with governance, "guaranteeing" the "rights" of investors, security of the accounting cycle, and information systems security. Not quite what you think it is.

Then you explain (at last) what you actually mean by "power structures". You don't mean advertising or the media or any such things. You mean, specifically geo-political strategy, suppression of "working" classes, and government sponsored genocide. These are very different things that what you started out discussing.

Let's see:

By "geo-political strategy", I take it you mean the increasing and troubling interference by the governments of India and China (through trade networks and preferential treatment) in the weaker and less advanced economies of Central Asia and Africa. Yes, let's see more "capitalistic propaganda" media reports about this. I agree with you.

By suppression of the "working" classes, I take it you mean the critical reports by Amnesty International of the governments of Saudi Arabia and Cuba. These corrupt "power structures" should be better exposed in the MSM. I agree with you.

I am not sure where you are going with "government sponsored genocide", but you might be talking about the repression of the religious rights of the Uighurs in China or the Islamist-sponsored terror against the people of Somalia and the Sudan. The MSM has been admittedly light on the Chinese for what they're doing to the Uighurs but the north-east portion of Africa is reported almost daily. So, I kind of agree with you.

None of these "power structures" are being threatened by your favourite whipping-boy, the "modern capitalist propaganda" machine. But none of them are otherwise beneficiaries of the same machine.