African shaman performing levitation

I have not commented on this yet but dogs don't make themselves heavier. I spend all day lifting dogs and have been doing this for 40 years or so so I should know. :) Anyone thinking they do make themselves heavier has a good imagination.
 
I went back to the start of this thread and I recommend you guys do the same. Here are some of the things that Insidespace had said:

As for me, I like to keep an open mind until there is absolute cash on the barrel head proof. A lot of people make "claims" but far fewer can "prove" these claims beyond a shadow of a doubt. You know their is a sucker born every minute, and it is because they don't say "mister, prove what you say!!!!!!"​
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Aha, right....

By the way I think I can prove my dog can make himself heavier. I held him and walked on a scale. He wiggles around and the scale changes. How can that happen when I does not hit anything,just wiggles. Thats not the point right now, that is another point. Right now, I tried to pick him up and he went "limp". Weighing him when he went limp showed more weight.​
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in some post he said that the scale would not show more weight because a scale cannot 'show' everything....whatever....

The African shaman's are known for being able to use the plants in the forest to find things out and do things. We did not see what plants were prepared here, but I would bet it is *very* important, and we westerners have *lost* the ability to see, even with the highest power microscopes, what plants in the forest can really do.​
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Sacred plants with ultimate powers....

? I have heard that some people have got to wear something around their heads to prevent other people's brain waves from bothering them. Maybe that is the origin of "crowns" made of metal for kings. They prevented brain waves from others getting through. I have not seen this written but maybe it is a *theory* we could prove.
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Reminds me of the movie "Contact" (excellent movie IMO) where people were seen wearing aluminum foil to block out possible alien attempts to read their minds.

Also, can you explain ESP, except in relation to brain waves? I would prefer an explanation that has natural forces in it.​
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ESP is a fact for this guy.

How else to explain, for instance, how you "know" someone is looking at you before you really see them? It happens all the time. Evolution gives an advantage to those persons who can recognize being stared at, so you are sensitive to those brain waves. Proof: It does *not* happen with a picture or a movie, only a real live person.
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Insidespace, there have been studies on this that proved chance probability of knowing if someone is staring at you.

So I am not wedded to brain waves per se, only if that definition is extended to waves of a type we cannot detect with our *current* limited equipment, which in 50 years will be thought of like we think of a stone wheel.​
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Of course, we are so tiny and know nothing of the great powers of the universe.

So, I still don't see how, *IF* and its a big IF, the Shaman is real, and is really levitating, how that *COULD* be explained except he can control his magnetic vibrations and synchronize them with the cosmos. I have read explanations like that in fact. If the vibration energy can be channeled, which is not easy I bet, then it could be harnessed for the common good. But in his case he is just demonstrating something to others less informed. It is up to us, as persons in a free country, to accept or reject what he does, based on the *EVIDENCE*.
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Classic. When you can't explain something use a lot of big words: magnetic vibrations, synchronization with the cosmos, vibration energy.
Oh and his *EVIDENCE* is a video on Youtube.

And, beyond that, can we possibly know all there is to know. They say Babe Ruth once hit a homer that went farther than "physically possible" because the ball "took off." I remember everyone said it was impossible. But aerodynamics has tricks up its sleeve. It is not nice to fool "mother nature" and nature always has the last laugh.​
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Again, we are so tiny and of course know nothing of the world around us. In other words, we're not worth...

And without these mysteries, how could we dream? If everything is reduced to "mathematics," why bother living? You could predict your life with mathematics, but it would not be fun.​
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I thought he wanted one his theories (the dog theory?) to be mathematically proven but the risk is taking all the fun out of life.

And if it is *never* possible to levitate (or fly, for that matter), how do you account for people being able to see things they could not possibly see. I once, personally, had a "dream" (or was it real) that I could fly if I really tried. I did not have to flap (since I did not, even in my dream state, have wings, I think it would be really stupid to have wings for a person), but I kicked hard and it did it. I had, as they said to the Wright Brothers (who were also laughed at you know-- they all said it was impossible to fly ha ha) afterward that they had "controlled" flight. Well the interesting thing is, how would evolution have provided me the knowledge of "how" to fly in controlled flight, if it was impossible????? There would never be a way for my "body" to learn this if it was not somehow remotely possible in the far future.​
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He can levitate people. I think we have a winner for the $1M.

I am not that stupid to believe anything I see is real​
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insidespace, your whole 'theory' on levitation is taken from a Youtube video for G-D's sake.

But, I have to take a man (or woman, sorry) on face value, at lease until he (or she) proves me wrong.​
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So if Copperfield would tell you he's really flying, that's enough for you to believe him too right? I'd love to hear what you think of Geller who claims he has real powers of the mind.


This has been a long post but I think worth the insight on our new and dear friend, insidespace.
Welcome to the boards my friend. All those before you were cheap immitators of the real thing which is you.

Regards,
Yair
 
Dogdoctor said:
I have not commented on this yet but dogs don't make themselves heavier. I spend all day lifting dogs and have been doing this for 40 years or so so I should know. :) Anyone thinking they do make themselves heavier has a good imagination.
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Sure. Sure. Don't you think we know that dogs know you are a skeptic and it dosen't work for skeptics? It's the RSFE (Randi Skeptic Field Effect). :cool:
 
Starthinker said:
Is the word god auto edited? Why can't this guy type the word God? At first I thought he was trying to say gonads, as in "The shaman was communicating with his gonads" but realized that wasn't the case.
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He's obviously not aware that the JREF Forum standard is to use "Gunderscored", or perhaps in this case "Ghyphend" or even "Gdashd" or "Gendashd".
 
insidespace said:
OK, a coupla things.

First, as I "predicted correctly" there is a *fundamental* disagreement about the dog making himself (herself?) heavier. One contributor said it was because the dog tensed himself (herself) up and was harder to lift. Another equally intelligient I assume contributor said it was the *other* way around, that it was harder to lift something loose and floppy.
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Nope--not at all. You said there is a disagreement on whether a dog can make himself heavier. I'm pretty sure everyone except you has denied this is so.

A dog can make himself more difficult to pick up in any number of ways, none of which involves increasing his mass (in the short term--obviously, he can eat and get heavier over time) or the effect of the Earth's mass on his.

It can go all limp and puddly making it hard to get a hold of him.

He can fidget and squirm making it difficult to keep a hold of him.

He can run like hell when he sees you coming and hide under the porch, making it difficult to pick him up.

He can growl in that really bad-ass threatening way that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, thus discouraging you from even attempting to pick him up.

He can bite your arm in such a way as to inhibit your ability to pick him up.

Note well: this list is not exhaustive. There are probably other ways a dog can make himself more difficult to pick up, so if someone else posts one, it does not in any way mean that I disagree with that post. Even if I did disagree with that post, it does not in any way mean that I think a dog can will himself to be heavier.

If you predicted that people will disagree on how he makes himself heavier, your prediction was wrong.
 
Madalch said:
And do they think that his name is actually "God"? That would be a bit like someone thinking my first name is "Chemist".
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Reminds me of a joke:
A grasshopper goes into a bar, sits down on a stool, and says "Bartender, get me a beer."
The bartender turns and sees the grasshopper sitting there, and says, "Hey! We have a drink named after you!"
The grasshopper says, "You have a drink named George?"

Anyway, to keep this post on topic (if that's even possible at this point), I just wanted to thank insidespace for this thread. One of the funniest in a long time, and you're pulling it off brilliantly. Well done!
 
YoPopa said:
My bad for saying that momentum & gravity can be separated. Of course they can not. And gravity is never eliminated as long as mass is present AFAIK. My problem with using the spinning earth argument against levitation is exactly that. If an alleged holy man claims to levitate does this mean that he has eliminated gravity from his body or only balanced the force of gravity with a counter force? And does it matter to the argument if he understands the science or not? Don't people sometimes do the things they say they can do although they get the explanation for how they do it totally wrong?

There are many legit ways to counter balance the effect of gravity. I doubt as strongly as you do that the alleged holy man is able to do this without deception. But let's just say that he is really levitating using some known principle of science and is innocent of intentional deception. Perhaps he is such a dedicated vegan (all those mystical herbs he eats) that his flatulence can be burned as rocket fuel. (which would explain his sitting in a ring of fire) He might be unaware of why he is floating, he just thinks that the old hemorrhoids are acting up. Would this mean that the earth would spin under his butt?

I ask this as a question of logic and NOT as an argument in favor of mystical levitation.
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Not a lot. As long as gravity is trying to accelerate you toward the center of the earth, you'll maintain your velocity due to inertia, and you'll curve along with the earth's surface as it rotates. There should be a small tendency to drift west. To stay directly over your starting local vertical, you need to speed up, because you are now following a longer path than the earth's surface. Since circumference is 2 pi r, your path is 2 * pi * altitude longer, and the additional speed required in meters/sec would be (2 * pi * altitude)/(60*60*24)
At 1 meter, then, you'd need 7.27 * 10^-5 meters per second additional speed.
 
insidespace said:
So, it is an African Robe, as we all agree.
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What if it's a modified Nebraskan bathrobe?

This thread is like watching an episode of Monty Python.

Bridgekeeper: What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen shaman?
King Arthur: What do you mean? An African or European shaman?
Bridgekeeper: Huh? I... I don't know that.
[he is thrown over the edge into the volcano]
Bridgekeeper: Auuuuuuuugh!

And now for something completely different.

The Pepperpots swivel round to look at the TV set in the corner of the room.
First Pepperpot: What's that on the television then?
Second Pepperpot: Looks like a shaman.

On the TV set there is indeed a shaman wearing a colorful robe. He begins to levitate and hovers above the TV. There is nothing on the screen.
First Pepperpot: No, no, no, I didn't mean what's on the television set, I meant what program.
Second Pepperpot: Oh.

The second Pepperpot goes to the TV, switches it on and returns to her chair. The set takes a long time to warm up and produce a picture. During this pause the following conversation takes place:
Second Pepperpot: It's funny that shaman being there innit? What's he doing there?
First Pepperpot: Levitating.
Second Pepperpot: I can see that!
First Pepperpot: What if he makes the dog a paperweight, manipulates our brain waves, or rearranges our furniture with his mind?
Second Pepperpot: Oooh, I hadn't thought of that.
First Pepperpot: Where's he from, next door?
Second Pepperpot: Shamans don't come from next door, they come from Africa.
First Pepperpot: Hollywood.
Second Pepperpot: Why did you say Hollywood?
First Pepperpot: I panicked.
Second Pepperpot: Oooh, what a pretty robe he's wearing
First Pepperpot: I wonder where he got it from?
Second Pepperpot: How should I know where he got it from? I'm not Doctor bloody Bernowski.
First Pepperpot: How does Doctor Bernowski know where it came from?
Second Pepperpot: He knows everything.
First Pepperpot: Oooh, I wouldn't like that, that'd take all the mystery out of life. Anyway, if it came from Nebraska, it would have 'Property of Nebraska' stamped on it.
Second Pepperpot: No it wouldn't. They don't stamp robes 'Property of Nebraska'.
First Pepperpot: They stamp them when they're new.
Second Pepperpot: What happens when they levitate?
First Pepperpot: Robes don't levitate.
Second Pepperpot: No, but shamans do. There, I've run rings around you logically.

On the TV screen there now appears an announcer.
TV Announcer: It's 8 o'clock and time for the levitating shaman on top of your television set to explode.

The levitating shaman on top of the set now explodes...

RayG
 
insidespace said:
Well, the mysteries of the human brain have yet to be unraveled. For example, why do you sleep? No body seems to know that. Where is the mind in the brain? Again, no body knows. So, brain waves exist. That's a fact. Do brain waves flow through the air and go into some one else's brain? Why not? Couldn't that explain the fact that a person can know what another person is thinking even across the room (sometimes across the whole country). Couldn't there brainwaves go over to the other person. Do we really know whether those waves can pass through the skull and go into the brain? I think a lot more research need to be done.
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Are you saying that all that money I spent taking that Cognitive Neurocience class was wasted, and all of that replicateable research data was faked? I'm glad your post has allowed me to stop living this lie! I shall inform my peers.
 
Well, a lot of good information has "flowed." I read the answers.com which was a long discussion of levitation. Here is a good quote I think:

The loss of weight in the levitated body may be an appearance due to the effect of a force which lifts or, if internally applied, makes the body buoyant. The best evidence as to the alleged extraordinary lightness of the bodies of saints and ecstatics is furnished in a case quoted by Col. Rochas of an ecstatic who lived in a convent near Grenoble. Three eyewitnesses, a parish priest, a university professor, and a student of the polytechnic school, stated that "her body would sometimes become stiff and so light that it was possible to lift her up like a feather by holding her by the elbow."

Just like I *tried* to say, but no body wanted to believe me then, buoyancy force!!! And another section (not quoted because I am afraid of copyright violations if I quote too much, is that right?) talks about levers of some kind of pseudopods or something. That seems OK too, but I prefer the buoyancy thing. Also, dogs *are* involved, as the website suggests. Though I cannot with "mathematical proof" connect the dogs up, as they are referenced in a totally different way, but they are "dogs" nonetheless. Ha Ha.

See, the body of the saint, observed by scientientists, became "stiff and so light" just the opposite of the dogs that make themselves heavy (so as not to get stolen is my theory -- but hey it could be for another reason, I guess we will have to ask the dogs!!!! Just a joke). So, it is intentional, like the will, that does it.

If the "will" can make your arm go up, for no apparent reason, then why can't it make your whole body go up?? There is *nothing* that "causes" your arm to go up. It is *not* hit on by a meteor or something. It goes up *on its own.* So, why can't your whole body go up "on its own".

Answer that, my challenge to the "group." Answer why if the will is strong enough to move the body parts without any other thing causing it, why it can't move the whole body.

Plus which, there is no proof that a scale *always* reads exactly what is happening. As proof of that statement, see above, where a contributor says you can make yourself hard to pick up. How do you know that is not "real?"
 
Also, I note wiith some "I told you so" feeling that *nobody* was able to replicate the African Robe. Some body said it could be bought in Africa, well I hope so, I did not say G-D gave it to the Shaman (although such things have happened before you know, don't knock it till you tried it). But with plenty of time to search, and G-D knows the whole world to search in, no body has found the African Robe!!!!!

So, I would say, you should look at where the green grass grows. You can't fool Mother Nature (for long). If you let it all hang out, have a cup of coffee, relax and let your mind wander, the Answer will come.

Does that help?
 
And you above asked if your money was "wasted" taking a course in Cognitive Neurscience. Well, I don't know if it was wasted or not wasted. What kind of course was this? Did you attend regularly? Were you paying attention, or were you (I admit like me) looking at girls around you or playing with your pencil, or doodling or something instead of listening and reading? I have been in school plenty of times and actually fell asleep and could not even remember the pearls of wisdom being discussed. And another "variable" in the "mathematical equation" of whether you wasted your money or not is: how much money did it cost and how much money do you have? Of course, you may have other things to spend your money on, and G-D knows, Jonny can not have all work and no play. So I hope you get out and go sailing or maybe offroad trucking, or maybe you watch wrestling movies. But whatever and whenever you do this, you take with you all you have learned, and all you have *not* learned. You see, you can travel the wide world over, but you cannot get away from "yourself." So spend a dollar in educating yourself, you will not regret it, and far be if for me to say you wasted any money!!!!
 
insidespace said:
If the "will" can make your arm go up, for no apparent reason, then why can't it make your whole body go up?? There is *nothing* that "causes" your arm to go up. It is *not* hit on by a meteor or something. It goes up *on its own.* So, why can't your whole body go up "on its own".
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You're kidding right?

From the motor cortex, you will your arm to move. The appropriate action potentials go down the spinal cord to the appropriate nerves. The nerves stimulate the appropriate muscles with a series of action potentials causing muscle contractions of the appropriate muscles (even in the antagonist muscles). The contracting (shortening) muscled pull on their attached tendons which pull on the attached bone(s) resulting in controlled movement of the arm.

No mystery. We even know all about the energy used to do this work.

It does not "go up on its own".

Where did you dream up that idea?
 
And sorry, I did not respond to you accurately. If brain waves are just a "figment of my imagination" or even worse, a hoax, then explain (if you can) why an actor (or actress, sorry) feels totally different playing to a live audience than to a camera.

I don't know whether Cognative Neurscience courses discuss real world problems like feeling different in front of live brain wave producing people!!!

As I said before, you got to close your eyes to see the truth!!!!!

Does this help?
 
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