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10 story hole in WTC 7

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quote MaGZ
It is interesting to note that the individual had to exit the building from the loading dock and not the lobby. Before the collapse of WTC 2 the lobby of WTC 7 was being used as a triage to help the injured from the missile explosion that occurred at 9:03.

In his latest interview Jennings states that he was taken out a "hole in the wall" of WTC7 by the first responders. At this time the lobby was destroyed and he did not say there was anyone else there.

This was after the tower had collapsed and the WTC7 was hit with debri, if not then the first responders would have seen the damage from the missile/explosion and we know that this has not been reported
 
I can't acknowledge something that isn't true,
Then offer some evidence to the contrary.

just as you will ignore things that clearly are true.
Like what?

How about listing the post # that shows the huge gash shown on video is not really a huge gash? I suppose it's eyewitness testimony saying there was no damage that cna be seen by anyone looking at the video/pictures?
The long gash is nowhere near the area of the initiating event.
 
Galileo said:
What physical evidence do you have that core columns in WTC 7 were heated from office fires?
Why don't you guys wait for the final report?
The time and progression of the fires are well documented.

There is no need to wait for the final report on that issue.
 
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There is no need to wait for the final report on that issue.

:rolleyes:


Of course, no need to wait for a final report, Chris already KNOWS what happened.

It has been pointed out to you several times now that the column failure that led to the Penthouse collapsing may well have followed another series of events which was internal and hidden from view, OR that the failure of that column(s) could have been the result of the fires near them plus damage to the building that was not proximate to the columns.

The column failure that resulted in the penthouse sinking into the building is noted as the initiating event. That is simply the visible event.

A more thorough study may see that the load on the columns that failed was greater than on nearby columns but nearby columns suffered greater heat damage and suffered creep that put more load on the columns that eventually failed.

The Cardington tests showed many times that beam/coulmn connections often failed in the cooling phase after the fire was done. This also may have played a role in increasing the load or the lateral stress on the columns that failed.

The lower core would have experienced a western and southern pulling force due to the loss of exterior columns once again putting a lateral stress on all core columns. I know you reject this as having any effect. However I do not believe that you have ever tried to answer my question about the effect on a house you built if a corner was removed and several exterior studs removed or damaged along one side. You know that the structure would be unstable
 
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Fact is Chris, and I and others have pointed this out dozens of times, there was severe damage done to the WTC 7 structure followed by fires on several floors all of which would have been considered major fires and this includes fires in the region of the "initiating event".

What there is not would be any evidence of the use of explosives other than the characterization of sounds emanating from a building under extreme stress or even in the process of collapsing, as "explosions".
 
:rolleyes:
Of course, no need to wait for a final report, Chris already KNOWS what happened.
We all know what happened.
When faced with the reality that there is no evidence to support the official hypothesis, you chant, "Wait for the final report".

Do you really think the timing and progression of the fires will change in the final report?

Do you think they will discover debris damage to the area of the initiating event 5 years after the event?

They had 2 years to gather the data. They have pictures of the east half of the south face. If they had evidence of damage to that area, they would have published the pictures.
Don't you find it curious that they published pictures of every side except the south east side?

It has been pointed out to you several times now that the column failure that led to the Penthouse collapsing may well have followed another series of events which was internal and hidden from view,
May have in your dreams.

May have does not = evidence.

OR that the failure of that column(s) could have been the result of the fires near them plus damage to the building that was not proximate to the columns.
As i have pointed out, the fires were not sufficient to cause the failure of a column weighing over 4 tons per floor, and capable of carrying its load, unbraced for 4 floors when uniformly heated to 500 C.
The fires did not burn in any one place for more than a couple hours because the fuel supply was exhausted and the fires moved on.

Apx. L pg 36 [40 on pg counter]
Analysis of the global structure indicates that the structure redistributed loads around the severed and damaged areas. A progression of column failure to adjacent columns would have been arrested by the vierendeel action of the perimeter moment frame, which could span across a sizeable opening due to the strength and stiffness of the frame.

There is nothing to support your belief that damage, not proximate to the area where the collapse began, had a significant effect on that area.

The column failure that resulted in the penthouse sinking into the building is noted as the initiating event. That is simply the visible event.
If the failure of columns 79, 80 and/or 81 were not the initiating event, other columns would have to fail and not progress vertically.

A more thorough study may see that the load on the columns that failed was greater than on nearby columns but nearby columns suffered greater heat damage and suffered creep that put more load on the columns that eventually failed.

The Cardington tests showed many times that beam/coulmn connections often failed in the cooling phase after the fire was done. This also may have played a role in increasing the load or the lateral stress on the columns that failed.

The lower core would have experienced a western and southern pulling force due to the loss of exterior columns once again putting a lateral stress on all core columns.
Key point.
The hypothesis depends on columns 79, 80 and 81 buckling to the east.
Stresses pulling to the west and south would work against this.

I know you reject this as having any effect. However I do not believe that you have ever tried to answer my question about the effect on a house you built if a corner was removed and several exterior studs removed or damaged along one side. You know that the structure would be unstable
Thank you for asking. I do this sort of thing frequently.
I am currently rebuilding a garage from the inside. [termite damage]
I screwed a 2x8 across the ^ area at one end. [making it a truss]
I screwed bats to the horizontal ship lap siding to keep it from falling.
I removed the studs and plates from one half and replaced them.
Then i did the other half.

If you knew anything about how structures work, you would know that the removal of a few supports would not cause a partial, much less a global collapse, nor would it make the building unstable.
A building is effectively one piece. Shear strength is an essential component in any structure, especially in the lower floors of a 47 story building.
This shear strength would prevent 1 column from pulling 7 columns sideways.
Further, it would prevent 3 columns from pulling 21 columns sideways.

WTC 7 was over built to allow for the removal of floors in tenants so desired.

The NIST hypothesis assumes that WTC 7 was a house of cards and the failure of a single column could lead to a global collapse in about 15 seconds.

The hypothesis is a house of cards.
 
We all know what happened.
When faced with the reality that there is no evidence to support the official hypothesis, you chant, "Wait for the final report".

Actually Chris, there is a reason for a final report. What might you think that would be given your insistence that all one needs is the interim report?

Do you really think the timing and progression of the fires will change in the final report?

Change would be an overstatement. More detailed would be more along the lines of what I might expect.

Do you think they will discover debris damage to the area of the initiating event 5 years after the event?

No, I think they may have discovered that 4 1/2 years ago and used the interim time to better understand the effect it had on the structure.

They had 2 years to gather the data. They have pictures of the east half of the south face. If they had evidence of damage to that area, they would have published the pictures.

Perhaps , perhaps not.

Don't you find it curious that they published pictures of every side except the south east side?

Nope. There are a lot of pictures of the Pope too but oddly none of them show him bathing AFAIK.

May have in your dreams.

It was but one example

May have does not = evidence.

As opposed to your compelling "looks like" and "sounds like" evidence.
Fact remains Chris, there was debris damage and there were fires. The details of those would go to showing how they contributed to the collapse. Some of those details may never be known though.
On the other hand you not only have no compelling evidence that explosives were used, you also have absolutly no details about where, when, who and how much was used.

As I have pointed out, the fires were not sufficient to cause the failure of a column weighing over 4 tons per floor, and capable of carrying its load, unbraced for 4 floors when uniformly heated to 500 C.

That would be a column in pristine condition and surrounded by a building in original condition.

The fires did not burn in any one place for more than a couple hours because the fuel supply was exhausted and the fires moved on.

Did I not mention the effect of beam to column connections, yes in fact I did.

Apx. L pg 36 [40 on pg counter]
Analysis of the global structure indicates that the structure redistributed loads around the severed and damaged areas. A progression of column failure to adjacent columns would have been arrested by the vierendeel action of the perimeter moment frame, which could span across a sizeable opening due to the strength and stiffness of the frame.

That redistribution of load means that something else took the load AND the lateral stress.
Besides that, this paragraph simply states that the initiating event was not a progression of perimeter column failures. It says nothing about internal columns.

There is nothing to support your belief that damage, not proximate to the area where the collapse began, had a significant effect on that area.

The loads were r e d i s t r i b u t e d Chris, they did not disappear and they were very significant.

If the failure of columns 79, 80 and/or 81 were not the initiating event, other columns would have to fail and not progress vertically.

Yeeessss do go on.

Key point.
The hypothesis depends on columns 79, 80 and 81 buckling to the east.
Stresses pulling to the west and south would work against this.

Now , stack the column sections up and bolt them to the floors. Now on one floor have the connection to the floor on the east side of a column disappear but the connection on the west side remain and pull the west side of the floor to the west. The bottom of the column goes west, the connection to the next higher floor remains in place, if the column buckles it will do so with the knee pointing east.

Thank you for asking. I do this sort of thing frequently.
I am currently rebuilding a garage from the inside. [termite damage]
I screwed a 2x8 across the ^ area at one end. [making it a truss]
I screwed bats to the horizontal ship lap siding to keep it from falling.
I removed the studs and plates from one half and replaced them.
Then i did the other half.

If you knew anything about how structures work, you would know that the removal of a few supports would not cause a partial, much less a global collapse, nor would it make the building unstable.

You just described a situation where you added material in order to keep the structure stable in the short term. How does that compare to what occured in WTC 7? In WTC 7 supports were removed, nothing was added AND THEN fire weakened more supports.

A building is effectively one piece.

In an ideal situation. However assuming the ideal will not suffice for a damaged building, nor one under attack by several fires.

Shear strength is an essential component in any structure, especially in the lower floors of a 47 story building.
This shear strength would prevent 1 column from pulling 7 columns sideways.
Further, it would prevent 3 columns from pulling 21 columns sideways.

Yes unless further damage was being done over a larger area such as by fires.


WTC 7 was over built to allow for the removal of floors in tenants so desired.

Which assumed that such modifications would be carried out in a measured action, not in a chaotic ripping out of steel. In the next garage you need to repair, try putting a chain on all the studs you want to replace, attach the chain to your truck and then drive off real fast. Still think the garage will survive that Chris? What would be the difference Chris?

The NIST hypothesis assumes that WTC 7 was a house of cards and the failure of a single column could lead to a global collapse in about 15 seconds.

Really? I thought it took something on the order of 7 hours to damage the building enough for it to progress to the point of rapid failures.

The hypothesis is a house of cards.

Frankly it looks a lot sturdier than anything you have brought forth.
 
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Frankly, this whole spiel that Chris has of trying to find fault in the official report instead of providing compelling evidence for an alternate theory that fits ALL the eye witness reports, ALL the physical evidence, and ALL the observations better than the official report is tiring.

85 pages? One would think that rational alternate theory would be presented by now.
 
oops, forgot a line in my above post.

in addition to:
Quote: WTC 7 was over built to allow for the removal of floors in tenants so desired.

Which assumed that such modifications would be carried out in a measured action, not in a chaotic ripping out of steel. In the next garage you need to repair, try putting a chain on all the studs you want to replace, attach the chain to your truck and then drive off real fast. Still think the garage will survive that Chris? What would be the difference Chris?

I would add that you are not allowed to add any shoring up or other extra load transfer members before driving off with the studs that need to come out.
 
Actually Chris, there is a reason for a final report.
There is a reason it has been delayed again.

What might you think that would be given your insistence that all one needs is the interim report?
Wrong
We also have the FEMA Tr 049; 403 C, D, 4 and 5; NIST Apx. L, Project 6, NCSTAR 1-1A, 1-3, 1-6, 1-8, 1-81, 1-3B as well as Testimony Sept. 8 and Lessons Learned.

Change would be an overstatement. More detailed would be more along the lines of what I might expect.
Perhaps

C7 said:
Do you think they will discover debris damage to the area of the initiating event 5 years after the event?
No, I think they may have discovered that 4 1/2 years ago and used the interim time to better understand the effect it had on the structure.
Please

If they had evidence of damage to the area of the initiating event, they would have included it in their analysis.

C7 said:
Don't you find it curious that they published pictures of every side except the south east side?
Nope. There are a lot of pictures of the Pope too but oddly none of them show him bathing AFAIK.
Now there's a stupid response.

As opposed to your compelling "looks like" and "sounds like" evidence. Fact remains Chris, there was debris damage and there were fires. The details of those would go to showing how they contributed to the collapse. Some of those details may never be known though.
On the other hand you not only have no compelling evidence that explosives were used, you also have absolutly no details about where, when, who and how much was used.
and the subject shift.

The pictures of the east half of the south face are the most important of all because that is the area where the debris damage could have effected the initiating event.

And you don't find it strange that they published pictures of every side and angle except the most important part.

None are so blind .......

That would be a column in pristine condition and surrounded by a building in original condition.
There was no debris damage to or near columns 79, 80 & 81.

Did I not mention the effect of beam to column connections, yes in fact I did.
The beams did not connect to the columns.
The beams were 9' o.c. and connected to the girders [which were necessarily much larger].
The girders connected the columns.

That redistribution of load means that something else took the load AND the lateral stress.
Besides that, this paragraph simply states that the initiating event was not a progression of perimeter column failures. It says nothing about internal columns.
The loads were r e d i s t r i b u t e d Chris, they did not disappear and they were very significant.
Analysis of the global structure indicates that the structure redistributed loads around the severed and damaged areas.

around: surrounds, on all sides

The damage stress is greatest to the surrounding framework, and to a decreasing degree, members further away.

Now , stack the column sections up and bolt them to the floors. Now on one floor have the connection to the floor on the east side of a column disappear but the connection on the west side remain and pull the west side of the floor to the west. The bottom of the column goes west, the connection to the next higher floor remains in place, if the column buckles it will do so with the knee pointing east.
The columns were 20 - 30 feet long.
That means several floors would have to fail.
To buckle a column, one splice has to give way to the west and two others tear loose from the east.

You just described a situation where you added material in order to keep the structure stable in the short term. How does that compare to what occured in WTC 7? In WTC 7 supports were removed, nothing was added
Good point

However

Because of the angle bracing in the side walls, no significant stress was transfered to the other end of the building.

Had i not added the additional member, the roof would have sagged a little at that end, but the sidewalls and the roof would be stable from the first ceiling joist and collar tie, to the other end.
No significant stress would be transfered to the other end.

AND THEN fire weakened more supports.
http://www.iklimnet.com/hotelfires/meridienplaza_lessons.html
12. Columns and certain other structural elements are normally exposed to fire from all sides. In this fire, the steel columns retained their structural integrity and held their loads. Experience in this and similar high-rise fires suggest that columns are the least vulnerable structural members, due to their mass and relatively short height between restraints (floor to floor). Major damage has occurred to horizontal members, without compromising the vertical supports.
 
Chris, what are planning to do with your insights?

Will you contact some structural engineers, somewhere in the world, with a view to maybe writing a paper about this?

Or how about an investigative journalist? Or a science reporter?

Or are you talking to the people at NIST?

You seem very determined to keep saying "I'm right" for months on end in the face of adversity on this thread. But how is that going to change the world?

If, as you seem to think, we are all hopelessly in denial about this, why are you still bothering with us? Surely there are more influential people to persuade?
 
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If, as you seem to think, we are all hopelessly in denial about this, why are you still bothering with us? Surely there are more influential people to persuade?

Well, in many ways we're a captive audience if we wish to keep posting. Any reputable structural engineer, demolitions expert, news organization, or investigative/law enforcement organization, ANYWHERE ON EARTH, would show him the door.

He knows that. I'm sure to him it's part of the conspiracy.
 
Well, in many ways we're a captive audience if we wish to keep posting. Any reputable structural engineer, demolitions expert, news organization, or investigative/law enforcement organization, ANYWHERE ON EARTH, would show him the door.

He knows that. I'm sure to him it's part of the conspiracy.
Its part of the conspiracy of reality that goes on everyday.

I can not believe this thread is this long.
 
Bingo I found something that provides a lot of information on why this building didn't collapse.


The degree of structural damage produced during the fire at One Meridian Plaza suggests that the requirements for structural fire resistance should be reexamined. Floor assemblies deflected as much as three feet in some places. The fire burning on multiple floors may have produced simultaneous exposure of both sides of these assemblies, which consisted of concrete slabs on corrugated decks, supported by structural steel beam and girder construction, sprayed with cementitious fireproofing materials. The standard fire test for floor and ceiling assemblies involves exposure from a single side only.

similar maybe...same construction? No


I have a homework assignment for Christopher...


Find out how reliable a solid girder is in a fire and report these findings to me...

Find out how reliable a steel truss member is in a fire and report these findings to me...

Tell me, what is more likely to fail during an intense fire and why?


Thank you.
 
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Chris, what are planning to do with your insights?

Will you contact some structural engineers, somewhere in the world, with a view to maybe writing a paper about this?
I sent a copy of my summaries to Richard Gage and Lenny Charles [INN World Report]
I will email Stephen Jones and others this weekend.

You seem very determined to keep saying "I'm right" for months on end in the face of adversity on this thread. But how is that going to change the world?
Your characterization "I'm right" is wrong.
I have been presenting FACTS and statements from the many official reports listed in post 3372.

If, as you seem to think, we are all hopelessly in denial about this, why are you still bothering with us? Surely there are more influential people to persuade?
Not everyone here is in total denial.
A few, like Belz and jaydeehess, are willing to acknowledge that the 10 story gouge, as described on pg 18, is a misinterpretation of other damage.

Also
By debating here i have found that there is no evidence to support the official hypothesis.

I invite you to offer evidence to refute the following:


There were fires on several floors, at different times, in the area of the initiating event.
[the failure of core column 79, 80 and/or 81]

Fires in east half of WTC 7

NIST:
11:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m.
Fire on floor 12, moved toward the east face
2:00 to 2:30 p.m.
Fires on Floors 11 and 12, at the southeast corner, progressing north.

As of 3:00 p.m., there were fires on floors 11 and 12 in the area of the initiating event.

There is no evidence that the initiating event was caused by fire.

A core column, weighing over 4 tons per floor, would have to be uniformly heated to about 1,000 F,
and 3 or 4 floors would have to collapse all around that column, before it could break at 3 splice joints and buckle.


There was no debris damage to or near the area of the initiating event.



That's the evidence.

Debris damage to the other end of the building,

and fires that a burned for a few hours, on a few floors, at different times,
in the area where the collapse began.
 
Bingo I found something that provides a lot of information on why this building didn't collapse.
similar maybe...same construction? No

I have a homework assignment for Christopher...

Find out how reliable a solid girder is in a fire and report these findings to me...

Find out how reliable a steel truss member is in a fire and report these findings to me...

Tell me, what is more likely to fail during an intense fire and why?

Thank you.
The paragraph that follows the one you posted is more to the point at hand.
Could the fires in WTC 7 heat the 4 ton per floor columns to the point of failure?

The evidence suggests not.

Columns and certain other structural elements are normally exposed to fire from all sides. In this fire, the steel columns retained their structural integrity and held their loads. Experience in this and similar high-rise fires suggest that columns are the least vulnerable structural members, due to their mass and relatively short height between restraints (floor to floor). Major damage has occurred to horizontal members, without compromising the vertical supports.
 
The paragraph that follows the one you posted is more to the point at hand.
Could the fires in WTC 7 heat the 4 ton per floor columns to the point of failure?

The evidence suggests not.


What evidence says there weren't fires?


"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely" - Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department


"Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area -- (Q. A collapse zone?) -- Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed." - Chief Cruthers


"A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good." - Captain Chris Boyle


"No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety." - Deputy Chief Peter Hayden


Or are they lying?


What if the fires were just smoldering?

"Smoldering is a relatively slow combustion process that occurs between oxygen in the air and a solid fuel. No flame is present, however the presence of very hot materials is on the surface of which combustion is proceeding. The surface undergoes glowing and charring. The glowing is indicative of a temperature in excess of 1000°C (1832°F). A smoldering or glowing condition can occur at any point in the fire with the controlling factor being ventilation." - NFPA 921: Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations 3rd Edition


Now what would if they were diffusion flames?


A Diffusion Flame is defined as a combustion process in which the fuel gas and oxygen are transported into the reaction zone due to concentration differences.

The vast majority of un-wanted and un-controlled fires are diffusion flames.

During a flaming fire, conditions may exist that decrease the oxygen level below 16%. This causes the combustion process to slow, the flames subside and the temperature begins to decrease.


With no set temperature as it would differ on the material burning...


Approximate Power Usage/Peak Heat Release Rate

Burning cigarette: 5W

Standard “A” Light Bulbs: 15 to 200 W

Burning match: 80 W

Coffee maker, hair dryer, toaster: 500 to 1500 W or 0.5 to 1.5 kW

Burning Coffee Maker: 40 kW

Small Trash Can, Trash Bag Fires: 50 to 300 kW

Burning Upholstered Chair: 80 kW to 2.5 MW

Burning Upholstered Sofa: 3,000 kW or 3 MW

Burning Christmas Tree: 1.6 MW to 5.2 MW

Base Design Fire: 5.3 MW


Even with a two hour rating on the fire insulation, that building held up substantially. It also accounts for the fire growth in the building as witnessed by firefighters. If the fires evolved from smoldering to diffusion flames, there would a higher heat release. Most temperatures referenced are based on STP

Standard Temperature and Pressure (STP) is a standard set of conditions for experimental measurements, to enable comparisons to be made between sets of data. Internationally, the current STP defined by the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) is an absolute pressure of 100.00 kPa (1 bar) and a temperature of 273.15 K


So it is clear that any combustible can exceed the STP findings.


Columns and certain other structural elements are normally exposed to fire from all sides. In this fire, the steel columns retained their structural integrity and held their loads. Experience in this and similar high-rise fires suggest that columns are the least vulnerable structural members, due to their mass and relatively short height between restraints (floor to floor). Major damage has occurred to horizontal members, without compromising the vertical supports. [/COLOR]


Standard Girder and Beam construction is very different from the tube construction that the WTC 7 was designed on.


The Empire State Building is the best example of a Girder and Beam construction.


The space between the columns and the Girders are shorter as compared to the tube frame, where it very open between the exterior walls to the core.


Now what does the NFPA say about Open Truss and Solid Girder Construction?

According to NFPA 921:

Fire fighters may be injured and killed when fire-damaged roof and floor truss systems collapse, sometimes without warning.

Understand that fire ratings may not be truly representative of real-time fire conditions and that truss systems' performance may be affected by fire severity.


More than 60% of the roof systems in the United States are built using a truss system. By design, wooden truss systems contain a significant fuel load and are often hidden from sight. Fires in truss systems can burn for long periods before detection and can spread quickly across or through the trusses. Steel trusses are also prone to failure under fire conditions and may fail in less time than a wooden truss under the same conditions.

The number of fire fighter fatalities related to structural collapse could be significantly reduced through proper education and information concerning truss construction. Fire fighters should be discouraged from risking their lives solely for property protection activities.

Unfortunately, fires are not predictable: conditions often deteriorate quickly, and fire-damaged building components, including trusses, can collapse with little warning. Engineering calculations provide data for an approximate time of failure under specified fire conditions; however, under uncontrolled fire conditions, the time to truss failure is unpredictable.


All-steel trusses present their own hazards when exposed to fire. The mass and surface area of steel truss components are factors that determine time to failure. A heavy, thick section of steel has greater resistance to fire than a lightweight section of the same length because of the increased mass. A large, solid steel truss can absorb heat and take longer to reach its failure temperature, whereas a lightweight steel truss such as an open-web bar joist will be heated to its failure temperature much faster.

Once the failure temperature is reached, heavy steel trusses and lightweight metal trusses will react to the fire and fail in a similar manner. A steel member fails at the internal temperature of the steel and not at the ambient air temperature. This temperature is often referred to as the critical temperature of the steel member.

Findings reported by the National Engineered Lightweight Construction Fire Research Project indicate that unprotected lightweight steel C-joists fail within 4 to 6 minutes of exposure to fire [Grundahl 1992]. Testing conducted by the U.S. Bureau of Standards (now known as the National Institute of Standards and Technology, or NIST) showed that unprotected steel open-web bar joists reached 1,200º F in 6 to 8 minutes [Brannigan 1999]. Table D-1 illustrates that steel retains only 25% of its original strength at 1,200º F and retains only half its original strength at approximately 900 ºF. Building design calculations are based on original strength at normal temperatures. At elevated temperatures, steel may retain no excess strength.

Steel is noncombustible and does not contribute fuel to a fire. This property may cause a false sense of security and overshadow the fact that steel loses strength when exposed to temperatures commonly found in structural fires. Steel has a high thermal conductivity, which means it can transfer heat away from a localized source and act as a heat sink. As long as the flame impingement is localized, the steel can transfer heat to other regions of the member-and thus the time to reach the critical temperature is delayed. If an intense fire is evenly distributed along the steel member, the critical temperature may be reached very quickly. Steel also has a high coefficient of expansion that results in the expansion of steel members as they are heated. As an example, a 50-foot-long steel beam heated uniformly over its length from 72° to 972° F will expand in length by 3.9 inches. The same beam uniformly heated to 800° F would expand by 3.2 inches; if heated to 1,200° F, the beam would expand by 4.9 inches [Grundahl 1991; Cotes 1997].

Source


Table D1:

Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Internal of     |  % of original strength  |    % yield strength
    the steel (F)  |  retained by the steel   |    lost by steel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
        70            |           100                |            0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------	
       400           |            87.5               |          12.5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
       600           |           72.5                |         27.5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
       800           |           57.5                |         42.5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      1,000         |          42.5                 |          57.5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      1,200         |            25                  |          75

Source Tapley (1990).
 
What evidence says there weren't fires?
Absurd question

Did you read post 3377?

There were fires on several floors, at different times, in the area of the initiating event.
[the failure of core column 79, 80 and/or 81]

Fires in east half of WTC 7

NIST:
11:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m.
Fire on floor 12, moved toward the east face

2:00 to 2:30 p.m.
Fires on Floors 11 and 12, at the southeast corner, progressing north.

As of 3:00 p.m., there were fires on floors 11 and 12 in the area of the initiating event.

Some time later, fires on floors 8 and 13.

The fires burned for less than 2 hours in any location as they progressed.

*************************************

The quotes you listed don't specify when and where the fires were.

It had very heavy fire on many floors Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department
several fires in it Chief Cruthers
with fire on several floors. Captain Chris Boyle

it took a while for that fire to develop.
It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it.
Deputy Chief Peter Hayden

**************************************

What if the fires were just smoldering?

Now what would if they were diffusion flames?
'What if' does not = evidence.


Now what does the NFPA say about Open Truss and Solid Girder Construction?
WTC 7 did not have trusses
 
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