• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Woo in mainstream archaeology?

Big Les

Philosopher
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
5,057
Location
UK
My brain hurts. I studied archaeology at university just about a decade ago, when postprocessualist ideas weren't really on the radar (well, mine, anyway). As I moved on to museum work I lost touch with much of what's "hip" and new, and my only real hint of theoretical/phenomenological brands of archaeology was a girlfriend who was interested in it. There's even a branch called "gender archaeology" if memory serves.

I recently read an article in the Cambridge Archaeological Journal (which most have to pay for unfortunately) entitled "Experiencing the past? The development of a phenomenological archaeology in British prehistory Joanna Bruck", which seemed a characteristically verbose introduction to the idea of phenomenological archaeology. The idea that what we experience or imagine about sites and objects today, can tell us meaningful things about past peoples. Sounds rather like a new age version of Ethnography to me. The parallels in that are limited, surely they are even more so in this case, tainted as they are by hundreds or thousands of years of cultural and geographical difference? There also seems to be too much room for seeing things that aren't there, or at least making claims that are unfalsifiable. An example would be Tilley, a pioneer of this sort of thing, who claims that this megalith was intended to mimic the range of hills to its west. That's just apophenia/pareidolia, isn't it? To me, they look no more alike than any other pair of flattish curvilinear shapes. Then you have the "experience" of walking around a Neolithic henge today being used to draw conclusions about the past:

He describes the views encountered as one enters and moves around the Neolithic henge. Approaching Avebury along the Avenue, for example, it is not possible to see into the monument until one has nearly reached it. By hiding the interior in this way, a sense of mystery and exclusion is created. Once inside the monument, the only location from which the entire interior is visible is from within the Inner Circle. From here, it is possible to see the hills outside the monument. The profile of the enclosing bank closely matches the shape of these hills, so that the form of the monument acts as a miniature model of a circular cosmos.

This is the sort of thing most of us do when we visit a site - we imagine, and form our own idea of what it might have felt like to live those years ago. But we wouldn't dream of offering it for publication. What evidence can be used to support such ideas? How is this any different to Bauval's Great Pyramid/Orion's belt speculation or even Von Daniken? In one way only - it's published in academic journals, is properly footnoted, and is taken seriously by some professional archaeologists. But are they being led down the proverbial garden path? Other aspects of the methodologies being used involve timing how long it takes to walk between buildings of a given site, how strenuous the hike up a hill was, and other such things that are highly subjective in their interpretation and dubious in their relevance to what we can say about the use of that site in the past.

Some of this work must (I assume) have merit and at least make for interesting speculation and discussion, but in general, do such approaches stand up to critical scrutiny? I'm tending towards "no" but am open to persuasion. Does it even matter? I would say "absolutely it does". The whole movement seems to be a bit of a navel-gazing free-for-all where evidence is sidelined in favour of feelings, speculation, and dare I say, "woo". There have been criticisms of this approach, though I can't lay hands on any just now. From what little I've seen so far, it seems like an ill-advised application of some philosophical ideas to what should be a rigorous (if not wholly scientific) evidence-based discipline not afraid to either say "we don't know" or to make it very clear what is hypothesis based upon evidence, and what is wild-assed-guess.

Is anyone well-versed in this area and able to offer a sceptical angle on it? Here's an abstract from the article in question (I'll try to find more free access stuff online but it's a bit obscure and confusing for laypeople (and me!) and doesn't seem well represented):

Phenomenology aims to describe the character of human experience,
specifically the ways in which we apprehend the material world through
directed intervention in our surroundings. The nature and significance of
materiality is clearly at the heart of the archaeological endeavour, and a
thorough understanding of how humans come to perceive and understand the
material world is therefore crucial. Importantly, although phenomenology
studies consciousness from the perspective of the subject, it also attempts
to break down the subject–object divide so central to post-Enlightenment
thought (e.g. Heidegger 1962; Merleau-Ponty 1996). It is argued that
embodied engagement with the material world is constitutive of existence.
In other words, it is through the performance of actions that have an effect in
the world that we realize our being. Things make us, just as we make things.
For a discipline which argues for the social, cultural and ontological centrality
of objects to the human species, phenomenological approaches clearly provide
an antidote to abstract models which prioritize the role of the mind in human
cognition.

I mean, seriously, what?
 
Last edited:
This was interesting. I've never heard of this approach before.

When I read your thread title, what I thought you were talking about was the various woo groups who hijack pre-historic sites for their rituals, and things like that. When a friend and I visited Sweden’s largest ship barrow, Ale Stenar (59 risen stones, 67 meters long and 19 meters wide) a sign told us the facts about it, but also mentioned the “war” between the archeologist and the varying pagan and other woo groups, on who had the most right to “use” the site. I think there’s been the same kind of problems at places like Stonehenge?

This seems to be a more “sneaky” way to introduce woo thinking into archeology. I am but a simple layman in such questions, but looking at the example texts from your OP, I can’t see how that can be of any real use. I can imagine that an archeologist do have use for a certain amount of imagination and ability to enter into an ancient mindset. I mean, as you say, we all wonder how and what and why the people who once lived in a certain place thought and acted the way they did, and to a certain extent we can speculate on it based on an understanding of human behavior on the whole, but we can’t base it completely on the thoughts and acts of a modern person. But that’s not quite what this phenomenological archaeology is about, if I understood it right, Is it? I didn’t quite get it at all, I must admit

Ale Stenar, by the way, photographed by me. It’s a fantastically beautiful place, my very poor photographing skills can not do the place justice at all, I am afraid.



And a photo of the site from the air. Not taken by me.

 
Last edited:
I've been to Ale stenar more than once, and they truly are awe-inspiring, even when you can hardly see them among all tourists milling about. I'm certain they were for the iron-age people who erected them (according to non-woo archaeologists), but not for the same reason. Just as I can find a church beautiful, but my feelings aren't the same as a christian believer who also finds it beautiful.

Perhaps a bit OT, but a popular woo idea is that the stones were erected in the bronze age as some sort of calender. The stones, or gaps between them, are said to point exactly at some celestial thing or other. That theory doesn't consider that the stones over the centuries have been torn down or fallen over, being buried in sand, some stones taken off and used as building material (originally, there were several stone settings, all gone now). Then, the setting was dug out and the stones re-erected. Not, one surmises, in the exact positions they were originally...
 
Last edited:
An example would be Tilley, a pioneer of this sort of thing, who claims that this megalith was intended to mimic the range of hills to its west. That's just apophenia/pareidolia, isn't it? To me, they look no more alike than any other pair of flattish curvilinear shapes.
Pentre Ifan is a rock chamber that was originally covered by an earth mound, so it could have been any damm shape. So, yes, any idea that the bare capstone echoes the line of the landscape is pareidolia.
However, I once veiwed the SummerSolstice sunrise at Castlerigg stone circle; standing behind one of the stones, I noticed that if I stooped a little so that the stone was at eyelevel, and looked in the direction of the rising sun straight ahead, the rough top of the stone matched pretty well exactly the rough notched line of the hillside that the sun was rising behind at that moment.
I was impressed. But as you can see from the pictures in that link, there are lots of surrounding hills and all the stones are rough and unfinished. Plus, they've been standing out in the open, getting weathered and knocked about, for around 5000 years. So the apparent matching could have been coincidence.

ETA: Looking again the the photos in that link, I'm almost certain that the stone in question was the one on the left in the last photo. You can see that the line of the stone's top is very similar to the line of the hill, right down to the little 'bump'.
 
Last edited:
I'll need to do some reading on this, but it seems that many proponents are of the opinion that, as we can't ever know for sure how people in the past lived, we might as well make some stuff up that's just as likely to be true.

The article I quoted is actually quite fair as it goes on, pointing out the flaws of the approach, mainly that the claims that come from it are still products of a modern, usually western, mindset, and can't often be supported. Some of it is so close to cult archaeology or pseudohistory that it makes me slightly uncomfortable. Some of the musing about what it's like to move around the landscape is very similar to things I wrote about Bronze Age barrows in Somerset for my A-Level Archaeology project aged 16/17, when I knew very little but thought I could determine things about history just by looking at them.

I'm tempted to suggest that people advocating such methods are likely to be the ones who wouldn't get much notoriety and prestige if they were adhering to "processual" methods. The only difference is in qualifications and jargon-filled post-modernist prose. At least the woo stuff is actually interesting and readable (sometimes), even if it's made up.

Archaeology is unscientific and open enough to subjective interpretation as it is, without throwing out what empirical methods and evidence we do have.
 
I've been to Ale stenar more than once, and they truly are awe-inspiring, even when you can hardly see them among all tourists milling about. I'm certain they were for the iron-age people who erected them (according to non-woo archaeologists), but not for the same reason. Just as I can find a church beautiful, but my feelings aren't the same as a christian believer who also finds it beautiful.

I've only been there once, but I'd like to go back. There was very little people there the day when we visited the place, even though the weather was great. The surroundings are so beautiful as well.

Perhaps a bit OT, but a popular woo idea is that the stones were erected in the bronze age as some sort of calender. The stones, or gaps between them, are said to point exactly at some celestial thing or other. That theory doesn't consider that the stones over the centuries have been torn down or fallen over, being buried in sand, some stones taken off and used as building material (originally, there were several stone settings, all gone now). Then, the setting was dug out and the stones re-erected. Not, one surmises, in the exact positions they were originally...

That's a good point, yes, apart from that our thoughts differ much from the ancient peoples', the places in themselves are not likely to look the same. Landscapes can change quite much, faster than we think.
 
That's a point made in the article I've been reading, and even one of the main proponents states that "only" a few metres of erosion or deposition separates today's landscape from the prehistoric one.

They just want a licence to dream if you ask me. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't science.
 
In the US,the constant stream of "discoveries proving "that Ancient Egyptians/Hebrews/Greeks/Romans/Celts/Chinese/pick your favorite ancient Old World Civilization /colonized North America seems to be the principal form of Archelogical Woo.
They often pose a problem to legit Archaelogists with their interfering with digs to "Get Evidence" for their crackpot theories.
 

Back
Top Bottom