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Rosemary Hunter...

RemieV said:
So now the question becomes this: Ms. Hunter may need to touch the volunteer. How can we allow that to happen if the volunteer will therefore know that she is working her powers on him/her?
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Is it really necessary for the volunteer to be unaware of what Hunter's trying to do?
 
Steven Howard said:
Is it really necessary for the volunteer to be unaware of what Hunter's trying to do?
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Absolutely. Or rather, if there is only one thing she is attempting to do (which in this protocol is paranormal urination) then it is necessary that the volunteers not know she is trying it on them at that moment particularly.
 
RemieV said:
Absolutely. Or rather, if there is only one thing she is attempting to do (which in this protocol is paranormal urination) then it is necessary that the volunteers not know she is trying it on them at that moment particularly.
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Why?
 
I agree with petre. You need to have two people trying to induce people to urinate. The volunteers need to work out which one of the two is Rosemary and which one is the fake Rosemary. They get one visit to each person. That way they do not actually need to urinate. If the volunteers have read this thread that is OK. There will no-one in the house during the experiment actually knows who is the real Rosemary. That is apart from the real and fake Rosemarys.

This procedure will need at least 10 volunteers. A variation will involve having two fake Rosemarys plus the real Rosemary. That way you need only 7 volunteers and you with 100% accuracy you get 1 in 2187 probability.
 
petre said:
Blinding. The power of suggestion must be removed as a possible cause.
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That is correct. The volunteers being used for the test are not going to be forumites, or even necessarily skeptics. It is absolutely necessary that we compensate for the power of suggestion.
 
WillM said:
Ok, I'll bite (pun intended) did she make the one person cry uncontrollably by eating onions and breathing on them or does she just smell bad? If the ability to make people urinate themselves or cry uncontrollaby by paranormal means exists, it would not be an ability I would brag about.
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For a million dollars, it's one of the easier things I could bring myself to do.

On a completely unrelated note, what does this imply about God from her perspective? Or given that she wins said prize (unlikely, but let me run with this) what would happen to theology? God(s) are omnipresent, omnipotent and benevolent, yet the manifestation of His plan is to give people powers to make them piss themselves? The mind boggles...
 
Yea!!!! Someone quoted me!! (Sorry, I dont have much of a life so I have to take every little of excitement I can get.)

To be serious, I have read that Rosemary wants to touch the volunteer. I suggest she must be checked to see that she has no substance on her hands that could be transferred to the volunteer (through the skin) that would cause a reaction.
 
WillM said:
To be serious, I have read that Rosemary wants to touch the volunteer. I suggest she must be checked to see that she has no substance on her hands that could be transferred to the volunteer (through the skin) that would cause a reaction.
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We're going to do everything in our power to ensure that she doesn't, but it isn't as though the JREF is half chemistry lab. She'll be asked to thoroughly wash her hands.

First, though, please remember we are still dealing with the issue of how to design a test where the hands can be touched at all. Read the last few posts, and let me know if you have any insight.
 
Does Rosemary need to see or meet the volunteers at all, or is touching them on the hand the only interaction necessary?

Because if no, what about a partition that blocks line of sight between Rosemary and the testee, with a hole for the testee to put their hand through. Have one or more other other persons imitate Rosemary's hand movements, and randomize the order in which each touches the hand of each subject. Don't have the guinea pi.. err testees ever meet the two beforehand.
 
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Normal Dude said:
Does Rosemary need to see or meet the volunteers at all, or is touching them on the hand the only interaction necessary?

Because if no, what about a partition that blocks line of sight between Rosemary and the testee, with a hole for the testee to put their hand through. Have one or more other other persons imitate Rosemary's hand movements, and randomize the order in which each touches the hand of each subject. Don't have the guinea pi.. err testees ever meet the two beforehand.
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But what would happen if volunteers urinated both during their contact with the fake Ms. Hunter and the real one? The results would be too clouded to tell anything.
 
RemieV said:
But what would happen if volunteers urinated both during their contact with the fake Ms. Hunter and the real one? The results would be too clouded to tell anything.
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Well then I just don't know. I'm not sure how the volunteers could not know something is being done if she has to touch their hands. A real puzzler.
 
Ms. Hunter has written to say that she will perform the test without touching anyone. *Cheer!*
 
RemieV said:
But what would happen if volunteers urinated both during their contact with the fake Ms. Hunter and the real one? The results would be too clouded to tell anything.
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Then you have a person who cannot control their bladder. It is as simple as that. There are people who must urinate every hour or more. The results would not depend on them actually urinating. It would depend on the person being able to tell the difference between the fake and the real Ms Hunter.

I could reverse the issue and ask what happens if volunteers did not urinate at all during the contacts?

Remember no judging is allowed. The results must be self-evident. If all the volunteers say that the real Ms Hunter is the real Ms Hunter then she is probably real. If only about half say the real Ms Hunter is real then the test has failed to provide any evidence for her abilities.
 
Back to basics

If this is still a *real* challenge-and I've decided that it detracts nothing from the fun of the converstation if it isn't - then a minimum condition of the protocol has to be a shorter time limit. 30 minutes is well within the normal 'gotta-go' timing of a broad range of people. I suggest 5 minutes as a wild swag at a number that would, if this were a real phenomena, appear convincing to most people. The test should have a total time limit- two hours or so, and during that time, subjects are randomly chosen from a group of people- 20 or more, if any of them go to the bathroom while waiting for the testing, they are excluded for a period of time- say 15 minutes, before their names are added back to the random pool from which the testees are drawn. This part of the protocol has to be hidden from the volunteers- if they know its their bladders being testing, they will either hold it, or try to pee more often- depending on whether they believe they are being tested to pee or not to pee..
 
Seventhsally said:
If this is still a *real* challenge-and I've decided that it detracts nothing from the fun of the converstation if it isn't - then a minimum condition of the protocol has to be a shorter time limit. 30 minutes is well within the normal 'gotta-go' timing of a broad range of people. I suggest 5 minutes as a wild swag at a number that would, if this were a real phenomena, appear convincing to most people.
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Maybe I'm not aware of this because I'm still fairly young.. :p but from what I know, there's a difference between having the urge to pee, and peeing uncontrollably. Volunteers should be asked specifically if they generally have an issue with not being able to hold back their urine. If they don't have an issue with controlling their bladder, then there shouldn't be a problem because my assumption (again) is that just because you have the urge to pee, doesn't mean you're going to let loose and piss all over yourself. :blush:
 
Power of suggestion

How are you going to negate the power of suggestion? To wit - telling someone you can make them urinate and then have them sit there for 15 minutes might just trigger that mechanism...at least to a small degree.
 
Maybe it's because we don't have the text of the actual application, but I suspect I'm interpreting Rosemary's claim differently than just about everybody else. I understood her claim to be that she can cause someone to actually lose control of their bladder and involuntarily urinate themselves, not that she can make someone simply feel an urgent need to urinate.

If the subject feeling the urge to urinate is going to count as a "hit," then you have to control for suggestion. If only the presence of actual urine counts, then I don't think suggestion is as important as some people seem to think. I think most people without serious medical problems can hold their urine for half an hour.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person reading this thread who's ever been on a long car trip.
 
Antranik1 said:
Maybe I'm not aware of this because I'm still fairly young.. :p but from what I know, there's a difference between having the urge to pee, and peeing uncontrollably. Volunteers should be asked specifically if they generally have an issue with not being able to hold back their urine. If they don't have an issue with controlling their bladder, then there shouldn't be a problem because my assumption (again) is that just because you have the urge to pee, doesn't mean you're going to let loose and piss all over yourself. :blush:
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Thank you. I laughed.

Steven Howard said:
Maybe it's because we don't have the text of the actual application, but I suspect I'm interpreting Rosemary's claim differently than just about everybody else. I understood her claim to be that she can cause someone to actually lose control of their bladder and involuntarily urinate themselves, not that she can make someone simply feel an urgent need to urinate.

If the subject feeling the urge to urinate is going to count as a "hit," then you have to control for suggestion. If only the presence of actual urine counts, then I don't think suggestion is as important as some people seem to think. I think most people without serious medical problems can hold their urine for half an hour.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person reading this thread who's ever been on a long car trip.
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The urge to urinate will not count as a hit. Only actual urination.

Everyone is supposed to use the restroom before the experiment begins, so I agree, I cannot fathom why someone would be unable to sit through the half hour, barring severe medical issues.

The way to get around suggestion is for no one to be sure which individual she is working her power on.

If there are, say, ten volunteers, she's only going to make two of them urinate. They will have numbers on their chests, and she will draw a number. Since the volunteers will be wearing blacked out sunglasses and no one needs to speak, they will not know if their number has been drawn or not.

A 'hit' is counted only when the target person is peeing.
 
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