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Why political systems based on atheism kill several times more citizens

Tricky said:
How can you possibly call it "irrelevant"? You are claiming that the bad things that communists have done is because of their lack of religion. You cannot then turn around and claim that the bad things Christians have done are unrelated to religion. Can you see how hypocritical that would be?
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The rest of us can see it... and you'll probably have to settle for that. Hopefully, there are people "on the fence" who can also see it. That's really the best any of us can hope for.
 
plumjam said:
yes, communism was atheist
nazism wasn't christianity, it was a form of materialist ideology based, in part, on social Darwinism.. hence the concept of the 'master race', its use of eugenics and the attempted extermination of 'competing' races
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Your assertion is demonstrably false. Have you heard of the Christian Identity Movement? They have all of the properties you've listed above and yet they do not subscribe to the politicized mis-representational pseudo science that is Social Darwinism. They, like the Nazis, believe that genocide is part of God's plan. So one can be Christian (granted, a hate filled and twisted Christian) and still champion the idea of a "master race".
 
Tricky said:
How can you possibly call it "irrelevant"? You are claiming that the bad things that communists have done is because of their lack of religion. You cannot then turn around and claim that the bad things Christians have done are unrelated to religion. Can you see how hypocritical that would be?
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well, it only works if you believe that humans are inherently evil and bad. And the only chance that they can be remotely good is by religion. But religion isn't always enough to save someone from their horrible evil nature.
 
Foster Zygote said:
So one can be Christian (granted, a hate filled and twisted Christian) and still champion the idea of a "master race".
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It can pretty convincingly be argued that the pro-genocide Christians are actually practicing a MORE ORTHODOX version of Christianity than their more liberal "brethren in faith".
 
JoeEllison said:
It can pretty convincingly be argued that the pro-genocide Christians are actually practicing a MORE ORTHODOX version of Christianity than their more liberal "brethren in faith".
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sure, but that would be a disingenuous arguement. being an athesit, I don't think you can reasonably argue what is more or less orthodox.

I don't think it serves any purpose to demonize religious people. Only the idiots who hold to idiotic points.
 
JoeEllison said:
It can pretty convincingly be argued that the pro-genocide Christians are actually practicing a MORE ORTHODOX version of Christianity than their more liberal "brethren in faith".
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yeah, I can think of several passages from Lukes gospel alone than can easily be used to support that argument
 
plumjam said:
I've already answered about the Scandinavian countries.. they happen to be capitalist liberal democracies allowing freedom of religion, they are NOT systems which actively persecute religious belief, as did communist systems. They are not compulsarily atheist societies.
So the example is meaningless in the current argument.
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So you must admit that atheism was merely present in Communist countries and not the root cause or basis of their oppression, just as Christianity was merely present in Nazi Germany and not the root cause or basis of Nazism. In oppressive regimes religion and atheism (or any number of other things) can both be manipulated by the state to its own means. The fact that Scandinavian countries can be largely atheist and not engage in oppressive authoritarianism demonstrates that atheism is not a cause of such behavior.
 
joobz said:
sure, but that would be a disingenuous argument. being an atheist, I don't think you can reasonably argue what is more or less orthodox.

I don't think it serves any purpose to demonize religious people. Only the idiots who hold to idiotic points.
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I think you need to have a few less drinks... :D

Plus, I'm not sure that it is at all disingenuous to argue from the Bible. Heck, they don't mind doing it, so why should we? :cool:
 
JoeEllison said:
It can pretty convincingly be argued that the pro-genocide Christians are actually practicing a MORE ORTHODOX version of Christianity than their more liberal "brethren in faith".
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i'm confused, can you explain to me why Christians advocating genocide are practising a more orthodox version of Christianity?
I reckon Jesus might be a bit miffed if he found this out. ;)
 
plumjam said:
i'm confused, can you explain to me why Christians advocating genocide are practising a more orthodox version of Christianity?
I reckon Jesus might be a bit miffed if he found this out. ;)
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Have you read the Bible?
 
Foster Zygote said:
So you must admit that atheism was merely present in Communist countries and not the root cause or basis of their oppression, just as Christianity was merely present in Nazi Germany and not the root cause or basis of Nazism. In oppressive regimes religion and atheism (or any number of other things) can both be manipulated by the state to its own means. The fact that Scandinavian countries can be largely atheist and not engage in oppressive authoritarianism demonstrates that atheism is not a cause of such behavior.
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my whole point is about systems that are intentionally atheist. Communism demonstrably was. Marx described religion as the opium of the masses, and thus in order for progress to be made this self-delusional obstacle (as he saw it) had to be removed. So atheism was a central tenet of communism.
 
plumjam said:
i'm confused, can you explain to me why Christians advocating genocide are practising a more orthodox version of Christianity?
I reckon Jesus might be a bit miffed if he found this out. ;)
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Well, we could start with the flood, if you believe in that sort of thing.
 
DOC said:
Originally Posted by plumjam
sure, and they were all small beer compared to what happened with communism

TYRANT DEATHS
Mao 40Million
Hitler 34M
Stalin 20M

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm
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hey thanks!
Hilter (a christian) is in the top three. I think that helps show the point I was making. It's the person not the religion (or lack there of)

Now, if we could only find some incans to see if they would like to say anything about the benevolence of the christians.
 
What is also "fun" is to see the claims that Western civilization is fundamentally Christian, yet none of the deaths attributable to Western nations is ever attributed to Christianity. It clearly shows the hypocrisy and dishonesty of certain people.
 
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