Why political systems based on atheism kill several times more citizens

[joobz]

you're misinterpreting what i wrote. i was saying 'precisely' as an expression of support for Tai's post
so yes, i am saying that it would be the religion or the atheism, not the people involved

but that wasn't Tai's point
he was placing blame at the foot of the person (which is where I place it as well)

 

[plumjam]

So, you are admitting that Christianity is responsible for the Holocaust. Thanks for the refreshing show of honesty.

for people who seem to pride themselves on their 'skepticism' it's quite amazing how so many would so easily swallow the assertion that the Nazism = Christianity.

 

[JoeEllison]

for people who seem to pride themselves on their 'skepticism' it's quite amazing how so many would so easily swallow the assertion that the Nazism = Christianity.

And, yet, you continue to spread the lies that Communism=Atheism, and that the Nazis weren't Christians. So, before you start making personal attacks, you might want to check your own posts first.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

most people seem to be conveniently ignoring the main point of the OP.. i.e. that political movements based on atheism...

If the basic premise of the main point is incorrect, since totalitarian systems are not based on atheism, but on personality cult, corruption, nationalism or political ideology, there's no reason to bother trying to get it.

And those of you arguing that Nazism or Hitler was/were Christians or based on Christian ideology, just stop. It's a stupifyingly dumb argument. Not quite as bad as atheism=communism, but pretty close.

Nazism was a national/political ideology and Hitler was a meglamaniac.

 

[plumjam]

And, yet, you continue to spread the lies that Communism=Atheism, and that the Nazis weren't Christians. So, before you start making personal attacks, you might want to check your own posts first.

yes, communism was atheist
nazism wasn't christianity, it was a form of materialist ideology based, in part, on social Darwinism.. hence the concept of the 'master race', its use of eugenics and the attempted extermination of 'competing' races

 

[Mercutio]

for people who seem to pride themselves on their 'skepticism' it's quite amazing how so many would so easily swallow the assertion that the Nazism = Christianity.

"="? Nice strawman.

Perhaps, since so many skeptics are disagreeing with you, you might want to revisit your assumptions. You know, just to re-check things.

 

[Tricky]

you're misinterpreting what i wrote. i was saying 'precisely' as an expression of support for Tai's post
so yes, i am saying that it would be the religion or the atheism, not the people involved

So then, every horrible thing that any Christian has ever done is because of their religion, don't you agree?

 

[JoeEllison]

And those of you arguing that Nazism or Hitler was/were Christians or based on Christian ideology, just stop. It's a stupifyingly dumb argument. Not quite as bad as atheism=communism, but pretty close.

No one has made the argument that Nazism was based on Christianity, as far as I can tell.

What we have done, I think, is show that it is dishonest to claim that the Nazis were atheists, and then blame atheism for the Nazi war crimes. It is about pointing out the contradictions in the claims of certain people, not making positive claims ourselves.(at least in my case...)

 

[JoeEllison]

yes, communism was atheist

It isn't based in atheism, and communism as a philosophy doesn't require atheism. So, feel free to try again.

 

[plumjam]

So then, every horrible thing that any Christian has ever done is because of their religion, don't you agree?

irrelevant point

the point of religious/ideological systems is that they provide a moral framework that disallows/permits/encourages/mandates particular forms of behaviour. the framework of communism was trying to create heaven on earth.. and for the reasons i have already explained this ended up in permiting/encouraging/mandating horrendous abuse of their own citizens

 

[JoeEllison]

"="? Nice strawman.

Perhaps, since so many skeptics are disagreeing with you, you might want to revisit your assumptions. You know, just to re-check things.

You do realize, in the "woo philosophy", the fact that we disagree counts as proof that the woo-ster must be right. No, it isn't logical, but when dealing with fringe beliefs, you cannot ever count on logical thought.

 

[Damien Evans]

irrelevant point

(same old refuted crap snipped)

THE IRONY, IT HURTS!!!

 

[JoeEllison]

irrelevant point

Odd how you declare that everything that disproves your false statements is "irrelevant"... well, not "odd", but certainly an aid when identifying false fringe beliefs.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

yes, communism was atheist
nazism wasn't christianity, it was a form of materialist ideology based, in part, on social Darwinism.. hence the concept of the 'master race', its use of eugenics and the attempted extermination of 'competing' races

I really wish people who don't know history or political science would STFU about those subjects.

Nazism was a blend of German Nationalism, bad archeology, Nietzsche, Lutheranism, socialism, anti-Communism and pervasive European anti-Semitism much of which in Catholic countries (note how the Concentration camps were in Catholic Poland) was due to the "Christ Killer" libel maintained by the Church.

No one has made the argument that Nazism was based on Christianity, as far as I can tell.

What we have done, I think, is show that it is dishonest to claim that the Nazis were atheists, and then blame atheism for the Nazi war crimes. It is about pointing out the contradictions in the claims of certain people, not making positive claims ourselves.(at least in my case...)

That's why I didn't comment on the negative claim, but I have seen positive claims about Hitlers Catholicism/Christianity if not in this thread, in others.

It is funny trying to see the folks who make the claim that totalitarian states were based on atheism like plum and DOC flail desperately to assert the untennable.

 

[JoeEllison]

That's why I didn't comment on the negative claim, but I have seen positive claims about Hitlers Catholicism/Christianity if not in this thread, in others.

Again, I would suggest that those claims generally exist simply to disprove the "Nazism is based on atheism" lie. And, as you note, the "Christ Killer" libel WAS maintained by the Church, and it is dishonest to pretend otherwise.

 

[plumjam]

so, still noone contesting my central point then ,

looks like I gotcha on that one... ahh.. the sweet smell of victory

 

[plumjam]

I really wish people who don't know history or political science would STFU about those subjects.

Nazism was a blend of German Nationalism, bad archeology, Nietzsche, Lutheranism, socialism, anti-Communism and pervasive European anti-Semitism much of which in Catholic countries (note how the Concentration camps were in Catholic Poland) was due to the "Christ Killer" libel maintained by the Church.

so you're saying social Darwinism played no part in Nazi ideology?

 

[strathmeyer]

yes, communism was atheist

I'm sorry, do we need to go over this again?

 

[JoeEllison]

so, still noone contesting my central point then ,

looks like I gotcha on that one... ahh.. the sweet smell of victory

Your "central point" is clearly false, and has been shown to be false. So, what you smell is anything but victory.

 

[Mobyseven]

As you still haven't provided us with an example of a political system based on athiesm, I'm going to say that your declaration of victory is a mite early...