Why political systems based on atheism kill several times more citizens

[Achán hiNidráne]

You say no "genuine Christian" would hate Jews as Hitler did.
St. John Chrysotom hated Jews as Hitler did. When you compare their two quotes it might as well be the same person speaking. They could almost be twins separated at birth. Chrysotom is Hitler with a halo!
So, is St. John of Chrysotom, SAINT John remember, a "genuine Christian"?
If he is, then Hitler, in hating Jews, is behaving exactly like a "genuine Christian".

Of course, it's possible that plum is a Protestant. Many of them don't think anything Catholic is "Christian."

 

[JoeEllison]

You say no "genuine Christian" would hate Jews as Hitler did.
St. John Chrysotom hated Jews as Hitler did. When you compare their two quotes it might as well be the same person speaking. They could almost be twins separated at birth. Chrysotom is Hitler with a halo!
So, is St. John of Chrysotom, SAINT John remember, a "genuine Christian"?
If he is, then Hitler, in hating Jews, is behaving exactly like a "genuine Christian".

Don't forget Martin Luther. You don't get more Christian than Martin Luther, and he was Hitler's spiritual brother.

 

[autumn1971]

Don't forget Martin Luther. You don't get more Christian than Martin Luther, and he was Hitler's spiritual brother.

Hitler and Martin Luther were black ?!?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Plum's nonsense about who is and who isn't a "genuine Christian" reminded me of a quote from Sam Harris in Letter To A Christian Nation:

You probably think that the Inquisition was a perversion of the "true" spirit of Christianity. Perhaps it was. The problem however is that the teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed out right (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. You are, of course, free to interpret the Bible differently--though isn't it amazing that you have succeeded in discerning the true teachings of Christianity, while the most influential thinkers in the history of your faith failed? (pp 11-12)

Why do I have the feeling that plum thinks HE'S the only "genuine Christian?"

 

[JoeEllison]

Hitler and Martin Luther were black ?!?

Please tell me you're joking?

 

[plumjam]

You say no "genuine Christian" would hate Jews as Hitler did.
St. John Chrysotom hated Jews as Hitler did. When you compare their two quotes it might as well be the same person speaking. They could almost be twins separated at birth. Chrysotom is Hitler with a halo!
So, is St. John Chrysotom, SAINT John remember, a "genuine Christian"?
If he is, then Hitler, in hating Jews, is behaving exactly like a "genuine Christian".

crikey, i'm not especially pro jew, but I never originallly brought up St John Chrysostom, and if he was as anti-jewish as you claim then he was obviously mistakenly canonised... which is not difficutl to believe seeing as many Popes were just Popes through being bought to that position through influence and money.
So St John Chrysostom hated Jews, and so did Hitler... how much further are we down the path to sorting out your salvation?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I do believe you, but lets just say, as a thought experiment, that you were granted the power to live eternally and to have whatever power you wanted over other beings (humans included), would you act in the same moral way for ever?... bit of a teaser, i know

Does this explain the immorality of the god described in the bible?

 

[JoeEllison]

Plum's nonsense about who is and who isn't a "genuine Christian" reminded me of a quote from Sam Harris in Letter To A Christian Nation:
Why do I have the feeling that plum thinks HE'S the only "genuine Christian?"

Hey, it is possible. I've been following politics long enough to know that certain commentators define about 95% of Americans as being "anti-American"...

 

[plumjam]

Plum's nonsense about who is and who isn't a "genuine Christian" reminded me of a quote from Sam Harris in Letter To A Christian Nation:
Why do I have the feeling that plum thinks HE'S the only "genuine Christian?"

why would you automatically assume anything about me that has anything to do with Christianity?

 

[JoeEllison]

why would you automatically assume anything about me that has anything to do with Christianity?

I don't know why I'm getting a bad feeling about this.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So St John Chrysostom hated Jews, and so did Hitler... how much further are we down the path to sorting out your salvation?

So you've placed yourself as soul arbiter to determine who's a "true" christian and who isn't, and your authority is even greater than the religious leaders of christianity. Gotcha.

However, I think you aren't really christian at all. According to Jesus, only people who can heal, are invincible to poisons and can't be harmed are true christians. I know where you can claim one-million dollars if you can simply demonstrate these traits of a true christian.

 

[plumjam]

We've shown repeated writings from hitler believing in God, whether he espoused to one religion or the other doesn't matter. He was not an atheist.

so you see yourself as a "Skeptic" yet believe every word uttered by Hitler

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

why would you automatically assume anything about me that has anything to do with Christianity?

Then what are you, and what gives you the right to judge who is and who isn't a Christian?

(In case you're wondering what gives me the right to judge, I was once a Christian. I've since gotten better.)

 

[autumn1971]

Please tell me you're joking?

Yes, I was very much joking. I apologize if it seemed to be simply racist or ignorant, but I appeared to have broken my own unwritten rule, i.e., "anything I write will only require smilies if I fail to express myself clearly in writing".

N.B. to self, rule no. 689 is no longer unwritten.

 

[JoeEllison]

Yes, I was very much joking. I apologize if it seemed to be simply racist or ignorant, but I appeared to have broken my own unwritten rule, i.e., "anything I write will only require smilies if I fail to express myself clearly in writing".

N.B. to self, rule no. 689 is no longer unwritten.

ROFLMAO!

 

[plumjam]

Then what are you, and what gives you the right to judge who is and who isn't a Christian?

(In case you're wondering what gives me the right to judge, I was once a Christian. I've since gotten better.)

i'm a non-jerry springer guest human being, and I have a knowledge of history that means i know Adolf Hitler was not motivated by Christianity... maybe some of you can contradict me by reporting his weekly church visits, or his written commentaries on St John's Gospel

 

[DOC]

Hitler's real feelings about Christians

There is a lot of talk about Hitler believing in God and even some ridiculous talk that Hitler was a Christian. Well the Book Hitler's Table talk published under another name in the 50's tells a very different story about Hitler and Christianity.

From the article: "Why I've lost faith in Richard Dawkins" by Michael Dibdin

Quote from Hitler from the book "Hitler's Table "Talk"

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2006/10/why_ive_lost_faith_in_richard.html


_______

The bolden words above sound very much like some of the beliefs of some of the skeptics in these threads.

 

[I less than three logic]

i'm a non-jerry springer guest human being, and I have a knowledge of history that means i know Adolf Hitler was not motivated by Christianity... maybe some of you can contradict me by reporting his weekly church visits, or his written commentaries on St John's Gospel

Now you seem to be saying that if someone doesn't go to church weekly or write commentaries on St John's Gospel they are not a Christian. I doubt you'd be hard pressed to find a self proclaimed Christian that disagrees with you.

I'm honestly quite surprised that you're still going strong with the same fallacy.

 

[JoeEllison]

There is a lot of talk about Hitler believing in God and even some ridiculous talk that Hitler was a Christian. Well the Book Hitler's Table talk published under another name in the 50's tells a very different story about Hitler and Christianity.

From the article: "Why I've lost faith in Richard Dawkins" by Michael Dibdin

Quote from Hitler from the book "Hitler's Table "Talk"

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2006/10/why_ive_lost_faith_in_richard.html


_______

The bolden words above sound very much like some of the beliefs of some of the skeptics in these threads.

So, your point is that, because the Nazis were all Christians, Hitler had to appeal to their Christianity in order to motivate them?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

i'm a non-jerry springer guest human being, and I have a knowledge of history that means i know Adolf Hitler was not motivated by Christianity... maybe some of you can contradict me by reporting his weekly church visits, or his written commentaries on St John's Gospel

Whether or not Hitler was a practicing Christian doesn't change the fact that he used Christian dogma and references to divine destiny and providence to justify his actions. Whether or not he actually believed in God is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that he certainly did not use atheism as the justification for his atrocities.

Also, to ignore the fact that antisemitism in Europe was NOT spawned from Christianity completely ignores history. Even if Hitler didn't believe in God, those who followed him hated the Jews largely because it was what their religion (both Catholic and Protestant) taught them to do.