The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

hmm.. the facts, huh?

8 of the supposed hijackers named by the govt. turning up alive and well in various parts of the world, no arab names on the flight manifests, no dated CCTV of the supposed hijackers in the relevant airports on the relevant day, 5 of the supposed hijackers having a Pensacola military base as the address on their drivers licenses, the 9/11 commission refusing to ask 70% of the questions put forward by family members etc.. etc..
So when are you going to post an actual fact instead of a "Truth Movement" proven fallacy?
there are as many holes in the official version as there were in the case for the subsequent invasion of Iraq
Except that 9/11 wasn't used as reason to go into Iraq until after the WMD's weren't found.
 
8 of the supposed hijackers named by the govt. turning up alive and well in various parts of the world, no arab names on the flight manifests, no dated CCTV of the supposed hijackers in the relevant airports on the relevant day, 5 of the supposed hijackers having a Pensacola military base as the address on their drivers licenses, the 9/11 commission refusing to ask 70% of the questions put forward by family members

Ok, could you please provide evidence of these claims? Thanks.
 
So when are you going to post an actual fact instead of a "Truth Movement" proven fallacy?
Except that 9/11 wasn't used as reason to go into Iraq until after the WMD's weren't found.

I'd like to see where these so-called fallacies have been proven so
 
sure, when you can be bothered to provide the evidence against them
You see there now you have a problem. We could do nothing and your little truth movement will move along like the big foot, UFO and Elvis sighters or you could try to prove something,...........anything, the choice is yours. So.......do you have anything to bring to the table but the normal truther lies?
Start a thread if you got some evidence.
 
hmm.. the facts, huh?

8 of the supposed hijackers named by the govt. turning up alive and well in various parts of the world, no arab names on the flight manifests, no dated CCTV of the supposed hijackers in the relevant airports on the relevant day, 5 of the supposed hijackers having a Pensacola military base as the address on their drivers licenses, the 9/11 commission refusing to ask 70% of the questions put forward by family members etc.. etc..
The request was for facts, not lies. But I do note that you managed 3 outright lies, and 2 statements whose relevance to whatever CT you subscribe to you do not explain - all in one sentence!
 
8 of the supposed hijackers named by the govt. turning up alive and well in various parts of the world...
And how was this determined exactly? How was the possibility of these other folks simply having the same names as the hijackers ruled out? After all, there are plenty of completely different people who happen to share the same first and last names...
 
And how was this determined exactly? How was the possibility of these other folks simply having the same names as the hijackers ruled out? After all, there are plenty of completely different people who happen to share the same first and last names...

Exactly. Why didn't any truther ever realize that? There is a maintenance worker at my job site who's name is Bruce Willis..Does anyone recognize that name?
 
1. Watch (for doing nothing x40)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zK-te3Y0m5A

2. I never claimed the warnings were all about attacks inside the US. I said inside the US and on US interests. Very clearly. Let's look at some of what your quotes say, in any case:



Boy oh boy, I think you just debunked yourself! You shoudl have just let it lie...

If you are happy with this level of terror threat (and this is just scratching the surface) metting zero response from the man sworn and elected to protect you, then you too are a criminal negligent, like Bush.

again you cherry pick

you state 40 warnings and nothing was done, your initial claims were 40 warnings about attacks inside the US, we have just seen the report does not say this, what ever you try to say now, your quotes of tenet tried to say it was 40 warnings of attacks in the US

the report also says operations were started involving 20 other countries that summer to tackle AQ due to the intel warnings, these were part of the ongoing 70 operations??

why are trying to deny this?

it states that not much was done about the domestic threat because they had no specifics, this is what they work on

they had specific warnings as regards overseas targets therefore concentrated on them, i am saying they were deficient in realising the threat to the US but not overseas, but this is far different than saying criminally negligent

i never debunked myself, i was trying to give a balanced account of what was in the report you gave me and not cherry pick like you do, i even bolded some of the stuff i supposedly debunked myself with??

if you read it, there is next to nothing about domestic attacks in the whole report which is not what you were trying to infer, even when there is info there are again, no specifics

as for protect me and elected to protect me, you are obviously criminally stupid, as i am not even american, a fact you should have been aware of from other posts on this forum and possibly my username

if you read the report and still say there was "zero" response then you are a liar

ps do you know what sleeper agents are? it might give you a clue about why clarke did not push this as it was old info and did not have anything to do with the new foreigners that flew into the country to carry out 911
 
hmm.. the facts, huh?

8 of the supposed hijackers named by the govt. turning up alive and well

Oh, please, Plum. Surely such a cunning researcher such as yourself should've found out by now that these were cases of mistaken identity.

But thanks for proving lapman's point that truthers only have arguments that are easily shown to be false.

no arab names on the flight manifests

On the VICTIMS list, you mean.

the 9/11 commission refusing to ask 70% of the questions put forward by family members

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

there are as many holes in the official version as there were in the case for the subsequent invasion of Iraq

What does Iraq have to do with 9/11 ?
 
I've been on this forum just two days and have never in my life seen so many people imprisoned by dogma, and most of them don't seem to realise it.

Sure, Plum. When people disagree with you, call them dogmatic instead of proving your claims. That's a sure-fire way of endearing yourself to said people.

sure, when you can be bothered to provide the evidence against them

Again, such an astute researcher as yourself should've found out by now that the burden of proof lies on you.

I'd like to see where these so-called fallacies have been proven so

Actually, I'm sure you wouldn't. Because then you'd have to rationalise away the flaws of your theory.

your signature said:
"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

No, THAT is called dogma.
 
It must be quite hard going through life credulously believing everything you're told... what if two people tell you conflicting things? Who would one believe then? What possible process could one go through in order to discern who's telling the truth and who's not?
 
Your confusing the issue here. Bush being criminally incompetent regarding terror warning signs during the summer of 2001 is entirely different than Bush Co. being the mastermind behind those who actually did carry out the attacks.

You seem to have the same wrong assumptions as most of your fellow "truthers", which is that everyone who believes the generally accepted version of 9/11 events must be a Bush loving zombie. I'm an American and an absolute Bush hater. I would support impeachment charges against him and Cheney. As evil as those two are, 9/11 was conducted by 19 Islamic terrorists not under Bush's control.
No no no no no no no! It is you who have missed the point, of this section and of the entire thread up to now.

The issue is-
1. Prove that a new PH was deemed by the neo cons as propitious to policy (done)
2. Prove that the neo cons were criminally negligent in failing to prevent said new PH

If this can be done, then the case for a new investigation into connivance, cannot be refuted.
 
MJD, I've read every single one. All forty of them. Kindly do not make assumptions about what I have read, thank you. And given that I am currently working WITHIN the US Intelligence Community and have had some training in what is and is not actionable intelligence, you might want to defer to my knowledge in that arena, as I highly doubt you are working in the IC.

I reiterate my question: What, in your opinion, should the President have done in regards to these vague, incompletely investigated warnings? Please be specific and detailed, list out your response.
Where have you read them?

1. Chase down AQ cells
2. Harden border secutiry
3. Hardn airplane security
4. Toughen airport security
5. Toughen cockpit doors
6. Kill OBL when offered/have him handed over when offered
7. Make sure NORAD is on red alert,given 6th august.

just a few things. I have said all thse many times
 
I believe what the facts show. It's just that the facts support the "Official Version" of what happened that day. The "Truth Movement" has yet to show a single piece of "evidence" that can't be easily shown to be false.
As is believed by 16% of the US population.
 
No no no no no no no! It is you who have missed the point, of this section and of the entire thread up to now.

The issue is-
1. Prove that a new PH was deemed by the neo cons as propitious to policy (done)
2. Prove that the neo cons were criminally negligent in failing to prevent said new PH

If this can be done, then the case for a new investigation into connivance, cannot be refuted.

The issue is-
1. Prove that a new PH was deemed by the neo cons as propitious to policy- Failed
2. Prove that the neo cons were criminally negligent in failing to prevent said new PH - Irrelevant due to failure of #1.

That's more like it.
 
Where have you read them?

1. Chase down AQ cells
2. Harden border secutiry
3. Hardn airplane security
4. Toughen airport security
5. Toughen cockpit doors
6. Kill OBL when offered/have him handed over when offered
7. Make sure NORAD is on red alert,given 6th august.

just a few things. I have said all thse many times

Oh good grief. Had the government done some of those things prior to 911 people like you would be up in arms against the fascists and preparing for the coming police state.

This 20/20 hindsight 'if I ran the zoo' stuff is beneath you. Yea. All we had to do is 'Chase down AQ cells'. Whey didn't I think of that?
 
Where have you read them?

The unclassified versions online; I don't recall the website at the moment, but I will endeavor to locate it. It will have to wait until I'm at home, however.

1. Chase down AQ cells
This was being done. On a fairly constant basis. Or did you forget the 70+ investigations by the FBI into terrorism, or the Al Qaeda investigative cell of the FBI? What do you think they did?

2. Harden border secutiry
3. Hardn airplane security
4. Toughen airport security
5. Toughen cockpit doors
Ah hindsight... the preeminent weapon of the twoofer.

Newsflash: If we had done ANY of these PRIOR to 9/11 there would have been a giant uproar throughout the country. I actually agree with you on this, mjd (whoa, there's a shocker) that these should have been in place regardless of any threat, but you'd find that I'm in a distinct minority if you could go back in time and poll people prior to 9/11 about these measures. You might recall that the TSA didn't even EXIST prior to 9/11; security measures were undertaken by the airlines themselves or the individual airports. It wasn't federally run, to my understanding. I might be wrong; I suppose the FAA could have been nominally in charge of it, but regardless I HIGHLY doubt anyone would have stood for the level of security we have now in our airports back then without a darn good reason, and the nebulous warnings received by the intel community weren't enough.
6. Kill OBL when offered/have him handed over when offered
7. Make sure NORAD is on red alert,given 6th august.

just a few things. I have said all thse many times

Number six... yeah, that was possibly a mistake on our part, at least when it comes to killing him. Given what I know of the Taliban, I rather doubt the offer of turning him over was serious, however. Regardless, that one I can't fully disagree with; however, I don't believe that killing OBL would have stopped the 9/11 effort in its tracks. Al Qaeda is now and has always been a fairly "fragmented" group, and I'm of the opinion that OBL was not fully necessary to carrying out the plot. Even if we had killed OBL, Al Qaeda might very well have latched onto him as a martyr and become even more fanatically committed to carrying out the fatwas he issued against the US, and it might just as easily have turned out worse than it did.

As for number seven... what, EXACTLY, would that have accomplished, pray tell? NORAD's mission has always been focused outward, to air threats coming from overseas; how does this help deal with aircraft that have been hijacked WITHIN US borders? Not to mention, looking over the unclassified text of the 6th August PDB (located here: http://www.agonist.org/annex/pdb.htm), I see nothing that pertains to NORAD's mission at the time and is certainly no excuse for placing them in FPCON Delta, a condition, I might add, which is never intended to be maintained for more than a week or two at a time, given the difficulty in carrying it out. (Note: Red alert, or Force Protection Condition Delta, can be defined on any military website; just do a search) Those sorts of conditions are never meant to be maintained for weeks at a time, which would have to have been done if they implemented it right after August 6th, as you would have liked.

Anything else? Because I have to be honest, that list you gave; it's pretty useless, except in hindsight, or was already being done. The only two any different are the last two, and even they are questionable in terms of their usefulness.
 

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