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Rampant homophobia in Brazil soccer

Thanz

Fuzzy Thinker
Thanz
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
3,895
From here:

The director of a prominent soccer club insinuates on national television that a player on a rival team is gay. The player sues for slander and goes on TV to deny being homosexual. A judge causes an uproar by saying gays don't belong in Brazilian soccer.

With a narrative like a Latin American telenovela, a controversy over the questioned sexual orientation of Sao Paulo midfielder Richarlyson has shaken one of Brazil's most hallowed institutions — soccer — with insults, blanket accusations of homophobia and unsolicited defenses for supposedly closeted gay teammates.

It all started in June when Palmeiras club director Jose Cyrillo Junior was asked on a national TV program whether it was true that a soccer player from his team was negotiating for an exclusive television interview to announce that he was homosexual.

Cyrillo denied the report, but added "Richarlyson 'almost' played for Palmeiras," suggesting the 24-year-old ninth-year pro was gay.

Cyrillo later apologized, but Richarlyson — whose father played professionally and whose brother played for Sporting in Portugal and is now with Brazil's Cruzeiro — filed a criminal complaint for slander, saying he was wrongly accused of being gay.
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At this point, it is like stupid schoolyard taunts and perhaps some protesting too much. But what really shocked me was the ruling from the judge:
Judge Manoel Maximiano Junqueira Filho stoked the dispute by dismissing Richarlyson's claim and issuing a ruling that suggested he leave the game if he was homosexual. If he wasn't, the judge said, Richarlyson was obliged to defend himself on the same TV program where he was accused.

"Not that a homosexual can't play soccer," Filho wrote. "He can, but he must form his own team and federation, setting up matches with those who want to play against him."

The judge concluded that it is not "reasonable to accept homosexuals in Brazilian soccer because it would hurt the uniformity present" in team sport. Soccer, the judge said, is a "virile game" but "not homosexual," and allowing gays could lead to affirmative action for the sport requiring quotas of gays.
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Wow. A whole boatload of bigotry there, including some separate but equal, some "they are just different" and gay men can't be 'virile'. Gay men can't run around and kick a little ball?
 
"Not that a homosexual can't play soccer," Filho wrote. "He can, but he must form his own team and federation, setting up matches with those who want to play against him."
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Would there be enough players for a league? I thought all the gays were busy figure skating.
 
Scantily clad men in their prime physical shape, voluntarily engaging in close physical contact when joyous occasion happens.

Kissing, hugging, group piling.

In public. On TV.

Say no more.
 
CFLarsen said:
Scantily clad men in their prime physical shape, voluntarily engaging in close physical contact when joyous occasion happens.

Kissing, hugging, group piling.

In public. On TV.

Say no more.
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Since when was long socks, shorts and a shirt scantily clad?
 
How do they test for homosexuality?

Get the "Girl from Ipanema"?

Charlie (girl from Ipanema is a transsexual) Monoxide
 
Charlie Monoxide said:
How do they test for homosexuality?

Get the "Girl from Ipanema"?

Charlie (girl from Ipanema is a transsexual) Monoxide
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Go up to each player and sing "Clang clang clang!" The first one that replies "...went the trolley-y-y-y-y!!!" is gay.

Michael

P.S.

NOW you tell me about the girl from Ipanema!
 
Thanz said:
From here:


At this point, it is like stupid schoolyard taunts and perhaps some protesting too much. But what really shocked me was the ruling from the judge:

Wow. A whole boatload of bigotry there, including some separate but equal, some "they are just different" and gay men can't be 'virile'. Gay men can't run around and kick a little ball?
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The thread title is misleading. There is rampant homophobia in the judge's ruling, and for that he's taking serious flak. His ruling was so over the top that enraged everybody - it even included some racial prejudice for good measure. Top lawyers say the judge may get an official complaint and some suspension for this. It was also found that prejudiced rulings are commonplace for said judge, and for that he was already reprimanded once.

As for soccer, it's no different from many other institutions that do not favor gays or, rather, they say they would but, clearly, they don't. I'm sure they all prefer a don't-ask-don't-tell policy. From the player's point of view, well, this is a guy from a poor background (they all are!) to whom any criticism at that level is a threat to his success and, naturally, he's deadly afraid of being ostracized in the only profession he has shown any talent, a passport out of poverty. Thus, the feeling of being attacked.

eta: and how is any of this a "Latin American telenovela"? What, bickering doesn't happen anywhere else? So why the stereotype?
 
Luciana Nery said:
As for soccer, it's no different from many other institutions that do not favor gays or, rather, they say they would but, clearly, they don't. I'm sure they all prefer a don't-ask-don't-tell policy. From the player's point of view, well, this is a guy from a poor background (they all are!) to whom any criticism at that level is a threat to his success and, naturally, he's deadly afraid of being ostracized in the only profession he has shown any talent, a passport out of poverty. Thus, the feeling of being attacked.
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He might get ostracized from soccer if it comes out that he is gay, but somehow this means there isn't rampant homophobia in soccer? Simply pointing out that there are other instutions with stupid 'don't ask don't tell' policies or discriminate gays in no way diminishes the homophobia we see here. If other areas or professions also ostracize someone for being gay, then there is rampant homophobia there too.
 
Homophobia is quite rampant in ANY environment with the majority being men as the military, the police etc. Then personally I'd say American football is gay, but thats just me*.



* Come on! One guy bending over with another guy having his nose near the aforementioned guys butt, waiting to be handed a ball coming between the guys legs?
 
Thanz said:
He might get ostracized from soccer if it comes out that he is gay, but somehow this means there isn't rampant homophobia in soccer?
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Yes, and that's why the threat title is misleading. As I said, competition in soccer is so fierce, and those guys made such an effort to get there, that any little thing that can be used against them may be the difference between success and a mediocre career. It does not mean that there is rampant homophobia, that's an inference that you made.

It means that two or three prejudiced people, if important enough, may destroy a guy's career, especially because there are plenty of replacements for him. So yes, he should react indignantly. A guy like that is not self-confident enough to say "oh yeah, I'm gay, so what?". And, of course, he is right. He should be judged on his talent, not on his sexual orientation.

I really fail to see the "rampant homophobia" in Brazilian soccer. The article itself is sensationalist, but once you clean it out, there isn't much left.

Oh, and those soccer teams are in São Paulo, the city that held a Gay Parade with 2 million people this year.
 
Luciana Nery said:
Yes, and that's why the threat title is misleading. As I said, competition in soccer is so fierce, and those guys made such an effort to get there, that any little thing that can be used against them may be the difference between success and a mediocre career. It does not mean that there is rampant homophobia, that's an inference that you made.
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The fact that competition is so fierce does not support your argument. The fact that a person's sexual orientation may be used against them and would reduce someone from a success to mediocre does not support your argument either. Rather the opposite, on both counts.

If competition is so fierce, there will be a great incentive for each team to get the best players. If, as a team owner, you don't want to hire a talented player because he is gay, that hurts the competitiveness of the team. It places the gayness above the competitiveness. If something that is irrelevant is so controlling that it gets placed above the most important thing (competitiveness/winning), how can it be anything but rampant?

It means that two or three prejudiced people, if important enough, may destroy a guy's career, especially because there are plenty of replacements for him. So yes, he should react indignantly. A guy like that is not self-confident enough to say "oh yeah, I'm gay, so what?". And, of course, he is right. He should be judged on his talent, not on his sexual orientation.
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It can't just be 2 or 3 people. If a person is talented, and only 2 or 3 won't hire him because he is gay, he will go somewhere else. It needs to be much more pervasive for it to affect someone's career.

I really fail to see the "rampant homophobia" in Brazilian soccer. The article itself is sensationalist, but once you clean it out, there isn't much left.
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Then why can't a player come out of the closet? Why is even the insinuation that someone might be gay such a big deal?

Oh, and those soccer teams are in São Paulo, the city that held a Gay Parade with 2 million people this year.
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So?
 
Thanz said:
If competition is so fierce, there will be a great incentive for each team to get the best players. If, as a team owner, you don't want to hire a talented player because he is gay, that hurts the competitiveness of the team. It places the gayness above the competitiveness. If something that is irrelevant is so controlling that it gets placed above the most important thing (competitiveness/winning), how can it be anything but rampant?
...
It can't just be 2 or 3 people. If a person is talented, and only 2 or 3 won't hire him because he is gay, he will go somewhere else. It needs to be much more pervasive for it to affect someone's career.
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Competition is fierce in any sport these days.

Are you saying that homophobia does not play a significant role in sports today?
 
CFLarsen said:
Competition is fierce in any sport these days.

Are you saying that homophobia does not play a significant role in sports today?
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Not at all. If you look at the title it is clear that I think homophobia is rampant in at least Brazilian soccer. It is quite possibly just as bad in other professional sports, such as NFL football.
 
Thanz said:
Not at all. If you look at the title it is clear that I think homophobia is rampant in at least Brazilian soccer. It is quite possibly just as bad in other professional sports, such as NFL football.
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Have you checked?
 
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