Reporters and Guns II

Mycroft

High Priest of Ed
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
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In another gun related example of media ignorance, making the rounds of some of the more conservative blogs right now is this picture from Iraq:

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/eve...os_ts_wl_afp/140e13087c8865bec0c22bcf01aa597b


The claim is this picture is purposeful propaganda fed to an uncritical media sympathetic to an anti-war stance, but I'm trying to understand the ignorance of a photographer in a war zone who apparently can't tell the difference between a round that was fired and one that was not fired. My own experiences with guns is slight, but even I was able to see the problem immediately.
 
Perhaps the gunmen involved need a mite more training. You're supposed to put the cartridges in a rifle and fire them, not just throw them.
 
In another gun related example of media ignorance, making the rounds of some of the more conservative blogs right now is this picture from Iraq:

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/eve...os_ts_wl_afp/140e13087c8865bec0c22bcf01aa597b


The claim is this picture is purposeful propaganda fed to an uncritical media sympathetic to an anti-war stance, but I'm trying to understand the ignorance of a photographer in a war zone who apparently can't tell the difference between a round that was fired and one that was not fired. My own experiences with guns is slight, but even I was able to see the problem immediately.
You are not spinning the story right. This is obviously a step in the right direction in Iraq, since gunmen have moved from shooting each other to throwing cartridges at each other.

or maybe whoever wrote the caption needs to at least watch a war movie or cop show...
 
If I was feeling charitable I'd suggest that something got lost in translation - it is a French agency.
 
From the caption in the photograph:

An elderly Iraqi woman shows two bullets which she says hit her house following an early coalition forces raid in the predominantly Shiite Baghdad suburb of Sadr City. ...

Therefore, the woman pictured was the source of the erroneous information while the "media" was simply reporting what she said.

People say incorrect things all the time, however the "media" is not in error when it accurately reports things that a person may say. Indeed, that is supposed to be the job of the "media"; to report the facts as accurately as possible and leave any interpretation of these facts to their public.
 
It's a fairly common propaganda attempt to claim civilians are being deliberately targeted. The woman has no clue what she's holding, is my guess.

It's not like this is the first time bogus "bullet hit me" photos have been in the "news".

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/07/busted-bogus-baghdad-bullet-story.html

Might even be the same woman. It's the same propaganda producing photographer.
 
There was a commercial a while back (I believe for Isuzu) where a person is showing that the car has rapid acceleration -- faster than a speeding bullet. Anyway, a bullet is fired from a gun and moments later the car takes off in an attempt to go past it while still in flight. The frame shows the car passing by the bullet (in flight) in a rather unbelievable situation. The "bullet" was still in the round, intact. That's right --- the gun somehow fired the entire round through its barrel, not just the bullet.

Now --- just how many people designed that commercial and then allowed it to go on the air as is without anyone catching this blunder of blunders?
 
It's a fairly common propaganda attempt to claim civilians are being deliberately targeted. The woman has no clue what she's holding, is my guess.

It's not like this is the first time bogus "bullet hit me" photos have been in the "news".

At least the article makes a good attempt at investigating the victim's claim.
 
Therefore, the woman pictured was the source of the erroneous information while the "media" was simply reporting what she said.

Well, no. That is in principle a possibility, but you cannot say that is the case because you only have the reporter's word for what she said.

People say incorrect things all the time, however the "media" is not in error when it accurately reports things that a person may say.

Sure that happens. But if they're doing their job, then 1) they should only be reporting what people say if it's newsworthy, and 2) if what they say is obviously wrong (as in this case), they should note that and indicate why. But that didn't happen here, did it? Under the standards you're setting up, the AP could report that somebody said that American troops were killing babies in the street - without mentioning the fact that it's a homeless dude having alcohol withdrawl hallucinations and there isn't a soldier within 100 miles. They're "accurate" in some very narrow sense of the word, and yet that's not acceptable reporting, is it?

Indeed, that is supposed to be the job of the "media"; to report the facts as accurately as possible and leave any interpretation of these facts to their public.

Well, no, that's not their job. There is no single set of facts to be reported. There are mountains and mountains of facts, they cannot all be reported, and readers can't wade through all of them even if they could. A reporter's job is to find the important facts and report them. They have to filter events, otherwise they're useless.

So if this is just some random woman holding bullets that were never fired from a gun, why the hell is it of any significance to anyone if she claims that these bullets hit her house? Furthermore, if you think that it is for some reason newsworthy (I can't see why, but I'll allow for that possibility), the caption should then have noted that the shell casings were still on the bullets, indicating that the bullets weren't actually fired, and leave the reader to decide whether she's lying or just really confused. But that's not what happened, is it? That's not how the story was presented. And neither the reporter nor any editor anywhere in the chain of handling this story ever decided that maybe the fact that the casing was still on the bullets was a relevant detail. Why is that? It's amazing that you're trying to excuse that. I can understand a reluctance to attribute malice, but jeeze, to not recognize that this is at least a story of total incompetence is, well, delusional.
 
People say incorrect things all the time, however the "media" is not in error when it accurately reports things that a person may say. Indeed, that is supposed to be the job of the "media"; to report the facts as accurately as possible and leave any interpretation of these facts to their public.

By that standard our media should be filled with reports from all the people who believe they talk to Jesus (or whoever), claim miraculous powers, see space aliens or know the final secrets of the Illuminati. Fortunately modern journalism classes still teach journalists to filter out the nonsense and concentrate on the issues of relevance.

I'm skeptical that this photo and it's caption is a purposeful act of propaganda by the media as the conservative blogs imply, but there is no doubt that it is horrendously bad journalism both on the part of the photographer and the editor who let it by.
 
http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/blog/link/like-a-suppository-only-stronger

Above is a link to a silly little video explaining the differance between cartridges and bullets. Some of the people that post here should watch it. Educational videos like this one would be helpful for those on this forum who claim it is illegal for Americans to own silencers, short barreled (sawn off) shotguns or machine guns without a license or permit. Ditto for those who think that pistols can not be used for hunting. :)

Ranb
 
By that standard our media should be filled with reports from all the people who believe they talk to Jesus (or whoever), claim miraculous powers, see space aliens or know the final secrets of the Illuminati. Fortunately modern journalism classes still teach journalists to filter out the nonsense and concentrate on the issues of relevance.

I'm skeptical that this photo and it's caption is a purposeful act of propaganda by the media as the conservative blogs imply, but there is no doubt that it is horrendously bad journalism both on the part of the photographer and the editor who let it by.


Imagine you are a Journalist....a person at an accident scene reports to you that god saved her from dying in the accident. Another person reports that the car flew through the air, another tells you they were lucky to not get killed. So what do you report? Do you add disclaimers about luck, supernatural beings.....and that cars cannot really fly?

Just curious but are civilians really being shot in Iraq?

you are actually correct about one thing. Journalists (good ones) filter out the nonsense and concentrate on the issues of relevance......The Issues of relevance being civilian deaths and the views and feelings of people who are actually there.....even if they are old ladies... and the nonsense being people picking over the pictures looking for chances to spin fog and mirrors.
 
Imagine you are a Journalist....a person at an accident scene reports to you that god saved her from dying in the accident. Another person reports that the car flew through the air, another tells you they were lucky to not get killed. So what do you report? Do you add disclaimers about luck, supernatural beings.....and that cars cannot really fly?

A car accident is newsworthy because it's a car accident, not because of any supernatural cause anyone attributes any part of it to. But why is this story newsworthy? The only reason is if bullets actually hit her house after being fired from a gun. Otherwise it's not newsworthy at all. And we know it isn't: those bullets were never fired, they're probably not even US military, and it's quite possible the cameraman simply staged the woman with the bullets to begin with.

But even assuming no malice on the photographer's part (something we cannot rule out), the equivalent scenario isn't someone at an accident scene saying that god saved them, it's someone in a crosswalk saying that god saved them from being hit by a car, without noticing that the car stopped because there's a stop sign. Is that news? No, it really isn't.

But you, apparently, don't care about the actual contents of the story, so long as it addresses the issues that you feel are critical. Well, that's not good enough. "Fake but accurate" doesn't cut it.
 
Imagine you are a Journalist....a person at an accident scene reports to you that god saved her from dying in the accident. Another person reports that the car flew through the air, another tells you they were lucky to not get killed. So what do you report? Do you add disclaimers about luck, supernatural beings.....and that cars cannot really fly?

Any or all of those reports could be reported, but if one of the eyewitnesses brings forth "evidence" that's obviously fake, then the reporter giving it a platform would be seriously irresponsible.

Just curious but are civilians really being shot in Iraq?

So by this standard, it would be okay for a reporter in your home town to make up a fire and "report" on it, because sometimes buildings really do burn down in your home town?

you are actually correct about one thing. Journalists (good ones) filter out the nonsense and concentrate on the issues of relevance......The Issues of relevance being civilian deaths and the views and feelings of people who are actually there.....even if they are old ladies... and the nonsense being people picking over the pictures looking for chances to spin fog and mirrors.

So fake is okay as long as it supports the narrative you like? :oldroll:
 
Sorry dudes...much as you dislike stories about civilian deaths in Iraq and old womens houses being shot up....well, ok, maybe that doesn't happen and dotted throughout the destruction are many many pristine old womens houses.

Picking apart pictures like 911 conspiracy theorists to shed doubt on the obvious.

Innocent people.......... civilians, are getting shot up....lots of them. Spin it however you like. I know you chaps don't want to support the right wing blogs, even the right wing blog members that post here......I'm sure there is some other sound reason for you to parrot thier methodology on this forum.
 
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/01/11/in-the-slums-of-baghdad/


Here is a nice picture....its the one at the bottom...I'm not in ANY way suggesting that there are no children in Iraq that have positive opinions of the USA.....but doesn't it make you think....hmmmmmm?? Ziggurat thinks maybe the cartridges in the OP pic were setup by the photographer....maybe this flag was given to the child for the photo .....not that I'm a conspiracy theorst, just asking questions is all I'm about......

The picture was also enhanced with photoshop, something Malkins site admitted and added a disclaimer later....enhanced....Hmmmmmm....not a conspiracy theorist here...just asking questions. How enhanced? as enhanced as they admit too? just asking questions....

you know the sad thing here? The issue should be the welfare of this and other children and not fools like me prattling on about the puicture, a blatant propaghanda photoshopped setup on the face of it.......so lets all prattle on about the picture....stuff the child welfare work being done by americans its the picture thats the issue.

there are a few other pictures in that link that you picture processors can work on....knock yourselves out sheding some doubt on the issue the article was putting forward... you know how its done. The satelite dishes on what are claimed to be "poor people's" homes should be a good start eh?
 
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The two things are not comparable. The CTists pick apart photos with subjective pseudo-analysis to try to shed doubt on the overal story - to create gaps for their "god". The example in the OP is demonstrably incorrect.

The ends (showing that civilians are dying in Iraq), do not justify the means (misrepresenting images). The truth matters, and this example does not represent truth.
 
The CTists pick apart photos with subjective pseudo-analysis to try to shed doubt on the overal story - to create gaps for their "god". The example in the OP is demonstrably incorrect.

The ends (showing that civilians are dying in Iraq), do not justify the means (misrepresenting images). The truth matters, and this example does not represent truth.
In what way was the image in the op misrepresented and who misrepresented it? Are you claiming that this old woman showing unfired cartridges ( which freely litter warzones) when she rants about something casts doubt on what she is ranting about?
 
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Ziggurat thinks maybe the cartridges in the OP pic were setup by the photographer....maybe this flag was given to the child for the photo .....not that I'm a conspiracy theorst, just asking questions is all I'm about......

The significance of him holding the flag might change if you knew that he was handed that flag, but unlike the AFP, the whole thing does not actually become a lie if that was what happened. Nice attempt at excusing what's at best shoddy journalism of the part of the AFP. Really, The Tool, you should at least expect minimal competence from journalists, but apparently you don't even want that standard applied to them.

The picture was also enhanced with photoshop, something Malkins site admitted and added a disclaimer later....enhanced....Hmmmmmm....not a conspiracy theorist here...just asking questions. How enhanced? as enhanced as they admit too? just asking questions....

The answer to which is in the disclaimer itself: "The subject was backlit in the original photo so I used Photoshop to adjust the lighting and remove a small amount of grain."
 

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