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Is It Possible There Is An Afterlife?

edge said:
Does ones immortal soul begin at our mortal birth or does it exist an eternity before our mortal birth?
Not sure don't remember.

After our mortal death, what does the immortal soul do for all the rest of eternity? Anything you want if you make it that far.
If you do you'll also know what not to do. By knowing what not to do you'll see.
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Magical thinking edge, prove a so-called soul, else it is just talk and has no weight to it.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
RandFan said:
If we don't remember our begining why should we be under the illusion that we will remember anything after our death?

The self is only memory. Absent memory there is no self.
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I know there is something that is written about this, but I can't remember for sure.
I can remember things, back to when I was about, I'll say 1.
Pretty vividly too, many details. I have tried to remember before that and it is blank.
I can picture my grandmother’s face and that was 52 years ago and I haven’t seen her since.
I think it says that we were there before, but don't hold me to it till I check.
The reason it's blanked out is a very interesting concept and it involves the physical aspects of the birth of us all.
It may have been absent at birth but it is written that man is only suppose to go through this life once and then the judgment, there is reason to believe that we will not lose our memories after death, in a sense it maybe a form of a different birth.
Birthing of an adult into his presents.
I have to work till midnight see what you can find out, this may bring up reincarnation, but some of them may be along the lines of this topic.
 
edge said:
Does ones immortal soul begin at our mortal birth or does it exist an eternity before our mortal birth?
Not sure don't remember.
Click to expand...

You don’t remember your immortal souls before your birth, but neither do you remember your immortal soul after your death. Because of this, the same argument for your belief in having an immortal soul applies for it potentially existing before your birth.

Since an immortal soul exists for all of eternity, it would seem logical that the immortal soul would begin along with the rest of existence. We have been able to determine that the known Universe dates back at least 10 billion years.

This mean that it is likely you immortal soul has experienced 10 billion years or more of existence before your birth.

edge said:
After our mortal death, what does the immortal soul do for all the rest of eternity? Anything you want if you make it that far.
Click to expand...

If we have an immortal soul, then, by definition, it will exist through all eternity. So there would be no question of making it, because by having an immortal soul you are guaranteed to make it.

Now, you might propose that immortal souls go different places after death, but that is irrelevant to making it that far.

After you die it is very reasonable to estimate the known universe will continue at least another 10 billion years. Either way you look at it, your single mortal life will consist of an extremely small portion of the time your immortal soul exists.

Therefore, the vast majority of the time your immortal soul will be experiencing something other than your current mortal life.

To say that during this time your immortal soul can do anything you want does not make sense, unless when you are not bound to you current mortal life you are the supreme absolute god of the existence your immortal soul resides in. Is that what you are saying?

Otherwise, you immortal soul must interact in some social structure with other immortal souls. This means social rules ad laws.

edge said:
If you do you'll also know what not to do. By knowing what not to do you'll see.
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How will you know what not to do? If you can do anything you want, there is nothing that comes under “what not to do” because you can do anything you want.

But then, you are also implying that by the time you die you will know some vital knowledge. Do you think everyone learns what they must by the time they die? If they don’t, do they ever get a chance to continue learning?

Speaking of learning, since the vast majority of time an immortal soul exists is spent somewhere other that your current mortal life, does your immortal soul ever learn and develop during that other time?

In other words, your immortal soul learns and develops during your mortal life which is probably going to be less than 100 years in length. During the other 20,000,000,000+ years your immortal soul is doing stuff, is it learning and developing?
 
RandFan said:
Then why pretend to know what god's law is? If you want to believe in god that is fine. If you want to speculate about the attributes of god that is fine. Why should you think anyone else should accept your version of god and her intent?
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It's amazing how many people believe that they know the mind of God - and that it matches exactly their own beliefs and preferences.
 
edge said:
...there is reason to believe that we will not lose our memories after death...
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(emphasis mine)

And that reason is?

I can't help you with that edge. I was once a believer in both prexistence and an after life. I believed in the imortality of the soul.

I stopped believing because I could not find reason to believe. No one else gave me reason to believe. I spent years looking. It's not in the Bible. It's not in the Koran. From what I can tell it's not in the Dhammapada or the Bhagavad Gita or Tao Te Ching.

I would be happy to consider any logically valid reason (by reason I don't mean "a reason" which is just to say a motivation to believe).
 
arthwollipot said:
It's amazing how many people believe that they know the mind of God - and that it matches exactly their own beliefs and preferences.
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Yeah, right down to the number of virgins god wants to hand out or his thoughts on the subject of sex including masturbation and three ways.

"He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the [rule 8] that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it." --Rufus - Dogma
 
Paulhoff said:
Magical thinking edge, prove a so-called soul, else it is just talk and has no weight to it.

Paul

:) :) :)
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Its not magical thinking, people all over the over have defined it pretty much the same throughout time. That gives it weight, and talking about it is not going to stop.
 
lightcreatedlife@hom said:
Its not magical thinking, people all over the over have defined it pretty much the same throughout time. That gives it weight, and talking about it is not going to stop.
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SAME, well I just have to look up the that word, it seems not to mean the same to you as it does to me.

Paul

:) :) :)

And the hell it is magical thinking, it is not based on anything that is testable.
 
Hmm, I would not be surprised if Edge feels chased off.

Is it possible that at some point in the distant future we will have a stable society where the average life span is at least in the hundreds of years and that we have the ability to create totally realistic virtual realities where when the user is submersed into the virtual world character they are consciously only aware of what the character is supposed to know?

I think it is possible.

What kinds of full submersion virtual realities do you think we would create?
 
Paulhoff said:
SAME, well I just have to look up the that word, it seems not to mean the same to you as it does to me.
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I said pretty much the same. And I am sorry, but some of our experience does require faith. Like with the certainity that there is an elegant formula that unites the four forces.


And the hell it is magical thinking, it is not based on anything that is testable.
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It is also impossible to test every part of our experience. And some ideas can be held until "more data is available". I know there is no God, I'm not sure about a creator (accident or not) but if I had to choose...
 
Oppressed said:
You don’t remember your immortal souls before your birth, but neither do you remember your immortal soul after your death. Because of this, the same argument for your belief in having an immortal soul applies for it potentially existing before your birth.
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I think that the EM force is the soul of life, it is the most responsible for the "how and why". The souls of individual lifeforms, are based on it. If the "spirits" of people don't exist outside the body, science is going to one day make it possible. We may not have everlasting life, but it is what we want.
 
lightcreatedlife@hom said:
I said pretty much the same. And I am sorry, but some of our experience does require faith. Like with the certainity that there is an elegant formula that unites the four forces.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that "certainty" does not require much "faith". It is a consequence of the fact that the Universe appears to be extremely consistent, and an extrapolation of that consistency to its logical conclusion.
 
Faith is inherent in the development of our brain. It is a requirement for our mental processes to function properly.

The problem comes when this faith is extended to things which are not only not proven but illogical or even proven to be wrong yet we continue to have faith it is correct.

Example of fundamental faith at work in our brain:

Walking down a sidewalk while not looking at our feet. We have faith that we will place our foot down on solid ground as we walk forward. This faith is born out of lots of experience, but it remains a leap of faith for our brains to make.

If we are not looking at our feet and we only glanced at the sidewalk earlier, there may be a hole or a dip in the sidewalk we did not see. To make the decision to walk forward requires a leap of faith without which we would have trouble walking.

Occasionally, our leap of faith in having solid ground under our stepping foot fails, perhaps a step down we did not notice, and we stumble in surprise.

We use faith all the time for normal everyday things, but this is not the same as having faith in something for which there is no bases or proof of.

If I have faith that my car will start tomorrow morning, it is based on the experience that my car has been starting regularly and has shown no sign it will not start in the morning. My choice of faith here is reasonable sound, though it might fail some day.

If I have faith that a servant of God, a Preacher at a Revival Meeting, can heal my arthritis, there has been great effort to validate this can be true and every attempt to validate it has failed to prove it is true. This choice of faith is a poor choice and it is almost certain to fail. If anyone could prove otherwise, they could collect Randi’s million dollar challenge.
 
You're talking about a qualititively different kind of "faith" here. Sure, by a certain definition I have faith that I won't fall through my chair and hurt my butt. But that is very much not the same thing as having faith that Jesus was resurrected and will let me into his exclusive club if I grovel to him enough.

I am confident that I will not fall through my chair. I do not have faith in the same way as some people have faith in God.
 
Oppressed said:
Hmm, I would not be surprised if Edge feels chased off.

Is it possible that at some point in the distant future we will have a stable society where the average life span is at least in the hundreds of years and that we have the ability to create totally realistic virtual realities where when the user is submersed into the virtual world character they are consciously only aware of what the character is supposed to know?

I think it is possible.

What kinds of full submersion virtual realities do you think we would create?
Click to expand...

If we have an immortal soul, then, by definition, it will exist through all eternity. So there would be no question of making it, because by having an immortal soul you are guaranteed to make it.
Click to expand...

No I had to work so you didn't chase me off.

First this,
“For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” 1st Timothy 2:5

You are guaranteed an imortal soul and it will last for eternity.

So there would be no question of making it[/qoute]
But on which level is the question?

I posted this several days ago on the Proof of God thread and it's what you need to know too.

It was posted tp paulhoffs responce.


Evil is a principality Paul and God created Satan who exposed us to the principality he created. Satan wasn’t like that to begin with and neither were we.
This is the point that you don’t get.
Now we must learn why not to accept that line of thought,anarchy,without authority.
I'm not the one being fooled here paul.
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This is why faith had to be.

23Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me."

23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. 25What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? 26If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."

23Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, "Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. 24For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it."

I have one more to find and it goes like this, Blessed is the one that doesn’t see me and still has faith, It’s late and I will be back in the morning.
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edge said:
Blessed is the one that doesn’t see me and still has faith...
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As a true believer I was always so moved by this scripture. Now I realize it is simply wallowing in ignorance.

Muslims have never seen Allah but many believe they will get 80 virgins for killing infidels, blessed?
Budhists have no proof of reincarnation but they believe in it, are they blessed?
Hindu's have never seen Shiva or Vishnu, are they blessed for believing?
The Greeks never saw Zeus, were they blessed for believing?
Sikhs have never seen the Ten Gurus, are they blessed?
How about those who believed in Thor?

Tell me this edge, many, many people have relied on faith in these gods, why should they not be blessed.
 
Edge thinks that no matter where he was born in this world he would be a christian, but he wouldn't be true. Whatever relgion his parents were he would be to.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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