10 story hole in WTC 7

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Yes. I agree that to me, WTC 7 looks like a CD. Then again, I get danish and donuts mixed up all the time.
A donut is is easy to recognize, it's the one with the hole in the middle.

The official story is a donut.

WTC 7 was a CD.

CD's are very recognizable.

Building implosions are the fine art of CD's.

Their characteristics are unmistakable.

WTC 7 imploded. There has never been a case of a high rise building imploding that was not a CD.

WTC 7 looks like a CD, therefore, it is possible that it was a CD.

These three experts say the videos are evidence of a CD.

They are well qualified to make that call.

The videos are, at very least, evidence of a CD.

 
A W Smith said:
there does not need to be. All that is needed is a load transfer and a rate of steel expansion elsewhere to push columns many bays away out of plumb for the structure to fail.


Many bays away? Source?

NIST Apx. L pg 39 [43 on pg counter]
I4.4 Lateral Displacements: Fire effects may have caused column instability
failure by lateral displacements from asymmetric thermal expansion of the floor system.
Such thermally-induced displacements
must overcome the restraining effect of the remaining floor system
against further lateral deflection of the column.

When expanding steel cannot overcome the restraining effect of the remaining floor system, it will sag or buckle.

Meridian Plaza

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2800/meridian5lo2.png

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-049.pdf
pg 19 [24 on pg counter]

After the fire, there was evident significant structural
damage to horizontal steel members and floor sections on most of the fire
damaged floors. Beams and girders sagged and twisted -- some as much as
three feet -- under severe fire exposures, and fissures developed in the
reinforced concrete floor assemblies in many places.

Despite this extraordinary exposure, the columns continued to support their loads without obvious damage.

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotelfires/meridienplaza_lessons.html
[FONT=&quot]12. Columns and certain other structural elements are normally exposed to fire from all sides. In this fire, the steel columns retained their structural integrity and held their loads. Experience in this and similar high-rise fires suggest that columns are the least vulnerable structural members, due to their mass and relatively short height between restraints (floor to floor).
Major damage has occurred to horizontal members, without compromising the vertical supports.
[/FONT]

A W Smith has not responded to this post yet.

Nor has anyone else for that matter.
 
A donut is is easy to recognize, it's the one with the hole in the middle.
The official story is a donut.
WTC 7 was a CD.
CD's are very recognizable
Building implosions are the fine art of CD's.
Their characteristics are unmistakable.
WTC 7 imploded. There has never been a case of a high rise building imploding that was not a CD.
WTC 7 looks like a CD, therefore, it is possible that it was a CD.
These three experts say the videos are evidence of a CD.
They are well qualified to make that call.
The videos are, at very least, evidence of a CD.

You sound like a man in the last desperate stages of supporting an untenable theory.
I suspect you're quite close to accepting that you've been talking b#llocks all these months.
It doesn't hurt.
Nobody here will take the mickey.
Been there.
 
You sound like a man in the last desperate stages of supporting an untenable theory.
I suspect you're quite close to accepting that you've been talking b#llocks all these months.
It doesn't hurt.
Nobody here will take the mickey.
Been there.

Brilliant presentation of evidence there - NOT!

As usual from your ilk, when you don't like the facts, you attack the poster.

If you can explain how the failure occured simultaeously over the full horizontal width of the building, please do so...
No, I didn't you could
 
Brilliant presentation of evidence there - NOT!

As usual from your ilk, when you don't like the facts, you attack the poster.

If you can explain how the failure occured simultaeously over the full horizontal width of the building, please do so...
No, I didn't you could

If you have any specific objections to the preliminary NIST report, or the eye witness reports of people there (these guys:)

Eyewitness accounts of WTC 7 fires
Eyewitness accounts of WTC 7 damage
Eyewitness accounts of withdrawal and hold back from WTC 7 due to danger

perhaps you could bring them up instead of building a 'failure occurred simultaneously over the full horizontal width of the building' strawman.

First, I'm sure you haven't read the NIST report, but at least read Gravy's WTC7 paper. It's not bad.
 
First, I'm sure you haven't read the NIST report, but at least read Gravy's WTC7 paper. It's not bad.

When you explain how the failure occured simultaneously over the full horizontal width of the building, I will listen to anything else you say...
If you can't do this, what's the point in talking about it?
NIST, as far as I know, have still not managed to explain this satisfactorily.
I understand that their report on WTC7 has been delayed for some reason...
 
"I have seen the Discovery Channel special on the Loizeaux family"

So like I said you are clueless.

If you researched it better you would know what detonation cord is and why it is used and not electrical wire. You wouls also know this cord is not easy to hide.

You would know that often large cables are used to direct the fall from inside but you have to knock big holes in the floors to do this.

And of course you would then know that pre-cutting of beams is the big part of a controlled demolition job, gee I wonder how all the pre-cutting of internal structure was done in WTC7 on 9/11. Even Jowenko mentions this pre-cutting in the long version of his interview, you can see how he is desperately trying to figure out how it was done in a building with huge fires. How do sneak a bunch of guys with cutting torched inside that building on that day.

I myself saw the inside of the JL Hudsons building here in Detroit before it was imploded. I was remarkable how much pre-demolition was done. But that is common in a real controlled demolition.

Like is said you obviously know jack about how this is done.
 
If you have any specific objections to the preliminary NIST report, or the eye witness reports of people there (these guys:)

Eyewitness accounts of WTC 7 fires
Eyewitness accounts of WTC 7 damage
Eyewitness accounts of withdrawal and hold back from WTC 7 due to danger

perhaps you could bring them up instead of building a 'failure occurred simultaneously over the full horizontal width of the building' strawman.

First, I'm sure you haven't read the NIST report, but at least read Gravy's WTC7 paper. It's not bad.
Gravys' list of quotes is misleading.
He would have you believe that WTC 7 looked like this

copyofmadridwindsoriu2.jpg


or this

146pmng3.jpg


when it looked like this

copyof3kt0.jpg


This was taken about 4 p.m.

There are pictures of the fires and a time line of the progression of those fires in the NIST report.

The south west corner had fires on nearly every floor.

There were fires on a few floors in the east end of the building where the collapse began.

Only a few of the firefighters on Gravys' list thought WTC 7 was going to collapse.
The rest heard about it thru the grapevine.

He left out the fire chief who did not think WTC 7 was going to collapse.
 
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"I have seen the Discovery Channel special on the Loizeaux family"

If you researched it better you would know what detonation cord is and why it is used and not electrical wire.
You are assuming that i did not know that.
You are wrong.
The special goes into detail on detonation cord.
They have detonation cord that burns at different speeds and inline millisecond delays.

You wouls also know this cord is not easy to hide.
It would be easy to hide in the elevator shafts.

It could be done without detonation cord.
You do not know the state of the art so don't say that's not possible.

teleblasteriivc4.jpg


[FONT=&quot]The HiEx Teleblaster II is an example of a high-tech blast initiation system that eliminates the need for detonation chords.[/FONT]

You would know that often large cables are used to direct the fall from inside but you have to knock big holes in the floors to do this.
The cables are optional.

And of course you would then know that pre-cutting of beams is the big part of a controlled demolition job,
Pre-cutting is optional.

How do sneak a bunch of guys with cutting torched inside that building on that day.
Therein lies the rub.

WTC 7 was rigged before 9/11.

I myself saw the inside of the JL Hudsons building here in Detroit before it was imploded. I was remarkable how much pre-demolition was done. But that is common in a real controlled demolition.
Common but not essential.

The core columns in the elevator shafts and mechanical floors [5 & 6] were accessible to 'maintenance' workers and out of sight to everyone else.

The building could easily have been rigged before 9/11.

There were no fires reported on the first six floors in the east half of WTC 7.
 
The videos are, at very least, evidence of a CD.

No, they are not. They are merely evidence of a building collapsing.
It is indeed an honor to be debating with a trial lawyer who knows more about building demolition than the owner of a demolition company.
 
It is indeed an honor to be debating with a trial lawyer who knows more about building demolition than the owner of a demolition company.


You are, as usual, misconstruing and misstating the facts, and even adding a strawman into the equation, to boot. Pretty lame, Chris.

I have not offered any opinion on building demolition. I have offered my professional opinion about evidence and expert witnesses. You know, those little things that I am, in fact, an expert on.

I am not the least bit surprised that you managed to get it completely wrong.

And I repeat, the videos are not evidence of a CD. They are merely evidence of a building collapsing.

ETA: The fact that you have not even asked, or tried to figure out, why they are not evidence of a CD, for legal purposes, is very telling, indeed.
 
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Here is the thing about WTC7 that I can't shake.

Why would WTC7 have to go? People keep screaming documents and files etc etc. If you ask me, hand carrying them out would be a lot neater. If you are CIA or NSA etc etc.....who do you report to regarding "what you're taking out of the building". I mean serioulsy, if they wanted to hide documents they wouldn't have to CD the building lol.

"**** what are we going to do with this piece of paper?"

"I know, lets not shred or burn it, let's bring down the entire building around it"

"Wow, good idea, much easier"

Oh wait I forgot, they made it such an unbelievable act to make sure that nobody would think it was just about destroying documents. :rolleyes:
 
"**** what are we going to do with this piece of paper?"

"I know, lets not shred or burn it, let's bring down the entire building around it"

"Wow, good idea, much easier"

Oh wait I forgot, they made it such an unbelievable act to make sure that nobody would think it was just about destroying documents. :rolleyes:

Yes, because when you really, really, really have to get rid of documents, it is far better to lose hundreds of millions of dollars in demolishing a building and to send the documents fluttering all over the streets of Manhattan than it is to spend $200 for a good shredder, of course. :rolleyes:

Oh, and damn those electronic copies of the same documents that happen to be stored at other locations. Damn, damn, damn. Why, oh why, didn't we think to take out those buildings, too? ;)
 
I have not offered any opinion on building demolition. I have offered my professional opinion about evidence and expert witnesses. You know, those little things that I am, in fact, an expert on.

And I repeat, the videos are not evidence of a CD. They are merely evidence of a building collapsing.

ETA: The fact that you have not even asked, or tried to figure out, why they are not evidence of a CD, for legal purposes, is very telling, indeed.
Spoken like a trial lawyer.

"for legal purposes"

Give me a break.

The truth is, the owner of a demolition company and two professors of structural analysis and construction say the videos are clear evidence of a CD.

You can ignore these experts by saying "That isn't enough for legal purposes", if it makes you feel good.
 
When was this HiEx Teleblaster II brought into general use Christopher7?

What would Jowenko say if they asked him why there were no loud explosions from the tower during the CD?

What would happen if jowenko stood up and said it would take a team of 30 men 2 months to set up the CD and that in his opinion it was impossible for this to have been done prior to 911, what would you say?
 
When you explain how the failure occured simultaneously over the full horizontal width of the building, I will listen to anything else you say...
If you can't do this, what's the point in talking about it?
NIST, as far as I know, have still not managed to explain this satisfactorily.
I understand that their report on WTC7 has been delayed for some reason...

It didn't fall "simultaneously". At least one very large structure was falling inside the building for several seconds just before global collapse.
 
Spoken like a trial lawyer.

"for legal purposes"

Give me a break.

The truth is, the owner of a demolition company and two professors of structural analysis and construction say the videos are clear evidence of a CD.

You can ignore these experts by saying "That isn't enough for legal purposes", if it makes you feel good.

Ahem. Once again, you are misconstruing and misstating the facts.

You were the one who claimed that Jowenko's opinion, based on a few minutes of video, would be compelling "expert" evidence in court. In fact, it would nothing of the sort. For the reasons set out previously, the man would be laughed out of court.

It was you who raised the issue of Jowenko testifying in court, not I. Not that it will ever happen. I suspect that the man would sooner slit his wrists than put himself and his reputation on a witness stand over his misguided and embarrassingly unprofessional words regarding WTC7.

You are so wrong on so many levels about nearly everything you post here, but when you try to pretend that it was I who raised the legal issue, that's just downright dishonest. I simply responded to the legal issue that was raised in your post. It is doubly dishonest when you use your initial lie to also create an ad hominem in the process as you have done in your most recent post above, to which I am responding.

You claimed that Jowenko would make a good expert witness for the CT brigade to prove, in court, that WTC7 was a controlled demolition. I pointed out to you why and how you were wrong about that. I pointed out to you that you haven't a clue what you're talking about when it comes to experts offering opinions in court, and I pointed out to you why and how Jowenko would be blown away on the witness stand since he based his "expert" opinion on a few minutes of video.

As you will recall, you claimed that he didn't need any more than that to formulate an "expert" opinion for purposes of testifying in court and you claimed that an expert need not have any background information, etc. for his testimony in court to be accepted.

I told you how wrong you were, and told you that any expert who comes to court without background information and without conducting thorough and in-depth investigation into the issue at hand would not be successful.

This all still stands. You know not of what you speak when it comes to facts, evidence, legal thresholds, expert witnesses, or anything else about the law, legal processes or procedures.

And now you have the audacity to insinuate that my referring to "legal purposes" is some kind of a dodge, when it was you who raised legal purposes in the first place?

That's way beyond lame, Chris, and as transparent as hell. It is apparent to me that you know that you have no meaningful response of substance so, instead, you're just writing crap in hopes that nobody notices your lack of substance.

Guess what? You have failed.

No matter how much you try to claim otherwise, the videos are not evidence of controlled demolition. They are merely evidence of a building collapsing.

The fact that you don't even know why this is so, and the fact that you are afraid to ask why it is so, is very telling.
 
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