peer review.

[~enigma~]

Belief does not replace facts.

Alex Jones says facts do and why shouldn't we believe him?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

The only people who act like NAZIs are the 9/11 truth movement. They suppress the truth and make up lies about 9/11. Only idiots believe in CD because only idiots are unable to see the facts. 9/11 truth movement followers are group think dolts who believe lies about 9/11.

The NAZIs did not do a good job hiding the Holocaust. Have you missed something. The NAZIs were seen coming in 1931, and when old dolt man Hitler took power people knew what was up. I know 9/11 truth is full of lies, they have you fooled and you are not listing to the truth about 9/11 truth. Your post show you are lost and you do not have a clue why you are wrong. Nice try, but you are confused and lost.

You do not read to comprehend, and you post here not to learn, but to post lies about 9/11. Go ahead stay with the "NAZIs" of 9/11 truth, you know you are right and you can be just like a good "NAZI" and ignore the fact you are in a group that makes up lies about 9/11. You are doing good and a member of 9/11 truth in good standing. The best part is you can do this lying with no repercussions from me. Go lie, you seem to do real well without facts, I like a good BS artist, but you need to work at it.

Your big problem is you believe in fact less CTs. JFK and 9/11, what else is in your bag of woo? With a name like realcddeal, you have lost before you started; not really looking for the truth, you think you are the truth. Uncle Fetzer would be proud.

The real Nazis/fascists are those who say there is no need to investigate 911. I say investigate because there hasn't been a real investigation yet. At least not one that hasn't been controlled by suspects in the case.

The same was true of the Kennedy assassination and Jim Garrison said it live on the Johnny Carson show in 1967 when Carson mentioned the Warren Commission as having been an investigation. Garrison said straight out that that was not an investigation and that no investigation had ever been done to that point concerning the assassination.

It just doesn't make sense that you would label people as Nazis for showing that there are legitimate questions concerning the events of 911 and asking for a new investigation. I have noticed that the real fascists in the U.S. have become adept at projecting and accusing others of what they are actually doing. Fascists in the U.S. do have something to hide as most Americans abhor fascists. It seems one trick the true fascists here have learned to do is to label others as the thing they are to detract from themselves.

Sorry Uncle Fetzer is adrift somewhere and he certainly wouldn't be chosen to be on my team. I really think he might be working for the other team in disguise. He needs to peddle his space beams and no planes nonsense elsewhere.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

I know you are wrong.

So we will not agree to disagree.

You do not understand gravity.

And you haven't shown us any calculations so how can you say I don't understand gravity.

I just have a suspicion that I understand what F=ma means, what impulsive loads are, what buckling is, and mechanics in general, a whole lot better than you. However, you are welcome to show me that hunch is wrong.

I was talking to TAM concerning agreeing to disagree. You might have thought it was you due to your similar handles.

 

[T.A.M.]

The real Nazis/fascists are those who say there is no need to investigate 911. I say investigate because there hasn't been a real investigation yet. At least not one that hasn't been controlled by suspects in the case.

I have seen noone except the truth movement accuse the USG etc...of being suspects in the case. You have no proof of their involvement, at least none that would pass muster.

I am no Nazi sir, I assure you, but I do not agree with a NEW Investigation, simply because you have not made a sufficient case for it, and I do not think that other american's money should be spent on such, unless a reasonable case is made for it.

The same was true of the Kennedy assassination and Jim Garrison said it live on the Johnny Carson show in 1967 when Carson mentioned the Warren Commission as having been an investigation. Garrison said straight out that that was not an investigation and that no investigation had ever been done to that point concerning the assassination.

It just doesn't make sense that you would label people as Nazis for showing that there are legitimate questions concerning the events of 911 and asking for a new investigation. I have noticed that the real fascists in the U.S. have become adept at projecting and accusing others of what they are actually doing. Fascists in the U.S. do have something to hide as most Americans abhor fascists. It seems one trick the true fascists here have learned to do is to label others as the thing they are to detract from themselves.

Sorry Uncle Fetzer is adrift somewhere and he certainly wouldn't be chosen to be on my team. I really think he might be working for the other team in disguise. He needs to peddle his space beams and no planes nonsense elsewhere.

But Fetzer, like so many others use to be the twoof movements starlet. Then, like so many of the front line gurus, he showed his insane leopard spots, and has been ostercised by most of his own. So too will DRG and others find themselves, as the truth movement is a very fickle lot.

The movement will soon run out of people they have faith in to be on their imaginary "investigation" committee.

TAM

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Didn't Mr Szamboti assume the parameter columns to have a safety factor of 5?

He approximates the perimeter column factor of safety as 5.00 for gravity loads only. He shows backup for that in his references.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

I have seen noone except the truth movement accuse the USG etc...of being suspects in the case. You have no proof of their involvement, at least none that would past muster.

I am no Nazi sir, I assure you, but I do not agree with a NEW Investigation, simply because you have not made a sufficient case for it, and I do not think that other american's money should be spent on such, unless a reasonable case is made for it.



But Fetzer, like so many others use to be the twoof movements starlet. Then, like so many of the front line gurus, he showed his insane leopard spots, and has been ostercised by most of his own. So too will DRG and others find themselves, as the truth movement is a very fickle lot.

The movement will soon run out of people they have faith in to be on their imaginary "investigation" committee.

TAM

TAM, I do not think you are a Nazi. In my short dealings with you I have come to believe that you are sincere in your beliefs. That is ok even though I don't agree with you. One of us will eventually be shown to have been wrong on this issue. My rebuttal of the Nazi thing was not directed at anyone with honest beliefs.

Saying that I do have to make a point in that it bothers me and many others that we can't have a new investigation of 911, which might cost 50 million, but we can spend hundreds of billions in Afghanistan and Iraq when the FBI has no solid evidence that anyone in those two countries had anything to do with the crime.

 

[T.A.M.]

TAM, I do not think you are a Nazi. In my short dealings with you I have come to believe that you are sincere in your beliefs. That is ok even though I don't agree with you. One of us will eventually be shown to have been wrong on this issue. My rebuttal of the Nazi thing was not directed at anyone with honest beliefs.

Saying that I do have to make a point in that it bothers me and many others that we can't have a new investigation of 911, which might cost 50 million, but we can spend hundreds of billions in Afghanistan and Iraq when the FBI has no solid evidence that anyone in those two countries had anything to do with the crime.

Well two wrongs don't make a right, even if your wrong (to me anyway) is much smaller financially...get my drift.

I believe the War in Iraq was done for the wrong reasons, or at the very least, under FALSE pretenses. You'll get no argument from me on that. That said, now that the USA is in there, stability on leaving is key to world security.

The investment in Afghanistan, I would hope is for the safety of americans, and the rest of the world as well, in terms controlling a region where terrorism is fostered and encouraged.

Your investigation still has to be justified, whether it is 50 million, 5 Billion, or 5 million, and TO ME, it hasnt been. I, however, am not the one you have to convince. That said, I am probably similar to the general populous, which IS who you have to convince.

TAM

 

[hellaeon]

Two points on this topic:

1. I am aware of a number of cases where a journal has rejected a paper, the author makes a few MINOR changes, submits the revised article to a different journal, and it is accepted. Thus there is no ABSOLUTE standard of quality in research.

2. I once discussed the issue of the quality of papers in the scientific literature with nobel prize winner Gerhard Herzberg and he said that there are two types of paper out there:

(i) Papers that provide data that will serve as quality reference data and as such will essentially always be of value, and
(ii) Papers that provide questionable data that will ultimately prove to be of little value or entirely erroneous.

In fact Herzberg believed that this IS THE PURPOSE of research literature: to separate the good from the bad!

Thus Herzberg argued that you shouldn't worry too much about the quality of a particular paper because research is self-correcting... good research is ultimatly recognized for what it is, as is bad.

Thanks Apollo, this is the kind of explanation I can offer to others who may ask me! Laymens terms!

 

[LashL]

By the way, no one is saying that peer review is the be all and end all, it's just that avoidance of the system is a sure sign of a pseudoscientist.

1. The pseudo-scientist has a profound intellectual superiority complex.
2. The pseudo-scientist regards other researchers as idiotic, and always operates outside the peer review system (hence the title of the original Antioch Review article, "The Hermit Scientist").
3. The pseudo-scientist believes there is a campaign against their ideas, a campaign compared with the persecution of Galileo or Pasteur.
4. Instead of side-stepping the mainstream the pseudo-scientist attacks it head-on: The most revered scientist is Einstein so Gardner writes that Einstein is the most likely establishment figure to be attacked. He writes: "A perpetual motion machine cannot be built. He builds one".
5. He coins neologisms.

Ouch. At least four of those five are going to hit a little too close to home for a certain someone around here.

 

[TerryUK]

... a new investigation of 911, which might cost 50 million, but we can spend hundreds of billions in Afghanistan and Iraq when the FBI has no solid evidence that anyone in those two countries had anything to do with the crime.

50 million for a new investigation - isn't that a sum of money equiv. to something like 60 minutes spending of the Defense buget ?

 

[stateofgrace]

Saying that I do have to make a point in that it bothers me and many others that we can't have a new investigation of 911, which might cost 50 million, but we can spend hundreds of billions in Afghanistan and Iraq when the FBI has no solid evidence that anyone in those two countries had anything to do with the crime.

That sounds like a good deal 50 million v 500 billion, have you suggested it to the USG?

Where is the return for the 500 billion BTW?

 

[T.A.M.]

50 million for a new investigation - isn't that a sum of money equiv. to something like 60 minutes spending of the Defense buget ?

All money, little or a lot, should be justified with evidence of a need. I don't see it, nor do others here...but it is not us you have to convince, despite the truth movement spending so much time trying to do so.

TAM

 

[Tony Szamboti]

That sounds like a good deal 50 million v 500 billion, have you suggested it to the USG?

Where is the return for the 500 billion BTW?

The oil men have that all figured out. Our investment and lives for their profits. All done in the name of the average American being protected from the terrorists, who just happen to be where a lot of oil still exists or are in the route of a pipeline. How convenient!

For a show of additional audacity take a look at what these guys have put into alternative energy research, with all of the money they have bilked the American public out of for the last thirty years with oil shortage scares. Over that 30 year time frame the average U.S. oil company has spent just 0.3% of its research funds on alternative energy research. The federal government under the Bush administration is spending less on alternatives now than was being spent in the late 1970's. In fairness, the oil companies seem to be getting with it a little more just recently. I wonder how much the quagmire we are involved with in Iraq has contributed to this seemingly mild change of heart. How much of Vice President Dick Cheney's secret Energy Task Force was devoted to alternative energies? I would be willing to bet none or a token at best.

I also want to mention that in the last thirty years of oil shortage scares Brazil has managed to become completely energy independent and does not import oil any longer. Why are they able to do it and we aren't?

 

[Gravy]

I hate to tell you but most investigators would look at the genitals first if you asked them the dog's gender. Here are the balls from the Kennedy assassination. The Zapruder film showing the front to back head movement and the Parkland hospital doctors and nurses description of the massive rear head wound

Except that when the video is slowed down and stabilized, JFK's head clearly moves forward at impact, before rebounding to the rear.

Is there anything you do know about?

 

[uk_dave]

Is there anything you do know about?

Ask TerryUK.

 

[LashL]

<snip>I also want to mention that in the last thirty years of oil shortage scares Brazil has managed to become completely energy independent and does not import oil any longer. Why are they able to do it and we aren't?

But can you legitimately discuss Brazil in that time frame without mentioning the horrific and nearly catastrophic financial failure that it faced in that time period? Without discussing the reality that required locals to, literally, lug suitcases of currency to do their weekly grocery shopping after the devaluation of the cruzeiro and the switch to the cruzado? Without discussing how the life savings of every day, hard-working, normal, middle class people went from (in relative terms) the equivalent of $100,000 to $100 overnight?

It was very, very ugly.

 

[Gravy]

He approximates the perimeter column factor of safety as 5.00 for gravity loads only. He shows backup for that in his references.

No, Szamboti shows how he makes up that safety factor: by assuming that the columns at the impact floors would have the same factor of safety for gravity loads that he calculated for columns at the base of the building. Perhaps they do, but Szamboti makes no attempt to justify this assumption or to calculate the actual gravity load safety factor of the perimeter columns in the impact floors (not that that has much to do with why the towers collapsed anyway). I wonder how that passed peer review.

Strangely, Szamboti interchanges the words column and beam throughout his paper. I wonder how that passed peer review.

Standard design practice dictates that the beams in the upper part of the building would have had the same factor of safety as the beams at the base of the towers. So knowing the design of the columns at their base, the total gravity load of the buildings, and the percentage of damaged beams, we have deduced what the remaining factor of safety was for the beams at the aircraft impact and fire sites.

And what does this hilariously wrong "gas and oil pipeline" nonsense have to do with an engineering analysis of the twin towers?

One may wonder who would want people in Afghanistan and Iraq to be blamed if they didn’t do it. A good hard look at the soon to be built U.S. oil company controlled gas and oil pipeline in Afghanistan, and the privatization of Iraq’s oilfields to U.S. oil companies, might be a start at solving that puzzle for oneself. Neither of these situations would have been possible, without the support of the American people, for the use of the U.S. military, to overthrow the previous governments of these countries.

I wonder how that passed peer review.

Oh, and here's Szamboti's entire analysis of WTC 7:

The obvious controlled demolition of WTC7, at 5:20 PM on Sept. 11, 2001, proves that charges were pre-positioned in it, as there would not have been time to rig the building that day, especially with fires in it. With this in mind, the demolition of WTC7 lends considerable weight to the notion that charges could also have been pre-positioned in the twin towers.

See? WTC 7 was obviously blown up, so the towers must have been also!

What a moron.

Anyway, realcddeal, if you're up for defending Szamboti's paper, let me know. I'll start the thread.

 

[uk_dave]

I wonder how the insurance companies view buildings which have pre-planted explosives?

Oh wait, sorry, the Insurance companies are in on it too!! Silly me.

As were the original builders, in fact every contractor in the NYC area who might at some point be asked to carry out alterations or undertake repairs must also be part of the conspiracy.

That would apply to the NYC utility companies also

Then, of course, the companies renting space within the building. They'd have to be tipped the wink about not letting their people get too....excited close to the positions of the preplanted charges...you know, just in case of premature explosion.

I'm beginning to wonder: Apart from a handful of 'truthers', is there anyone in the world who is NOT in on the conspiracy?

 

[Gravy]

I also want to mention that in the last thirty years of oil shortage scares Brazil has managed to become completely energy independent and does not import oil any longer. Why are they able to do it and we aren't?

Brazil will be astounded to hear this and will no doubt immediately launch an investigation into what is in those foreign oil tankers that dock there every day.


Is there anything you know about?

 

[~enigma~]

Ouch. At least four of those five are going to hit a little too close to home for a certain someone around here.

Damn, that hit so hard it even hurt me