Metatheory and the NIST report

Doesn't your head get tired from all the contradictions?

Your statement that the evidence or scientific theory is what is more convincing contradicts what you were stating in the previous post- which is that falsifiability and evidence are secondary to which theory is "more convincing".

Surely you understand the problems with such an assertion...

"Secondary" is your interpretation of something I have said. I have not used even used the word secondary, nor have I implied it anywhere on this topic. Are you trying to misunderstand me?
 
"Secondary" is your interpretation of something I have said. I have not used even used the word secondary, nor have I implied it anywhere on this topic. Are you trying to misunderstand me?

How did I misunderstand you? In a reply to this:

In general, valid falsification criteria must surely involve physically observed phenomena that contradict the predictions of the NIST theory, rather than counter-theories.

You said:

Actually, counter-theories are perfectly acceptable as falsification if they are more convincing than the NIST theory.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Counter-theories are sufficient- not evidence. "More convincing" is obviously the problem, here- Dave Rogers said it takes evidence, you disagreed. What part are you not getting about your own comments?
 
Maybe I'm missing the point, but if you're trying to determine if the NIST theory is falsifiable, by detemining predictions of the NIST theory that might be countered by a consideration of the evidence, haven't you just done that?

You've identified at least two aspects of the theory which you could, after some research and analysis, use to indicate if the theory is sound or not. So what are you still arguing about? Get to work, or not, but why waste more time on an answered question?

I will handle point 2 above. Dealing with this issue requires expanding NIST's theory from Mackie and Jay's to include impact damage. If no one has a problem with that. This issue is fairly simple based on the amount of fireproofing removed.

First there is no evidence whatsoever of fireproofing being removed on the south side of WTC1. The theory NIST provides to support this claim is that the fireproofing was knocked off by debris during the impact.

Let's look at the SFRM on the floor trusses and ask the question: Could any debris possibly have impacted the floor trusses on the south side?

It would first have to get through 60 ft of the floor truss matrix (both primary and secondary trusses). Then there is the problem that gravity is pulling the debris downward toward the floor while it is traveling from the north side to the south edge of the core.

From NIST NCSTAR1-2B: According to the base case debris starts leaving the core on the far side (south side) at 0.40 seconds into the impact. The equation for distance with gravitational accelleration is d = (gt^2)/2 which means that the debris will fall downward 30" during that time. Since the truss system is 29" only deep, no debris can possibly hit the truss system on the south side of the building unless it is deflected upward in some way.

At this point (0.40 seconds into the impact) the momentum is less than 10% of the original momentum meaning that the velocity (43.3 mph) is also less than 10% of the original velocity (433 mph). Furthermore if the debris is deflected it will loose velocity so any deflected debris hitting the truss system will have a velocity significantly less the 43 mph.

From NCSTAR1, NIST did not include the possibility of insulation damage or dislodgement from structural vibration.

In conclusion, very little if any damage could have been done to the floor truss fire-proofing on the south side of the building. The more severe case would not significantly affect this result.
 
How did I misunderstand you? In a reply to this:

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Counter-theories are sufficient- not evidence. "More convincing" is obviously the problem, here- Dave Rogers said it takes evidence, you disagreed. What part are you not getting about your own comments?

Again, your interpretation is not what I intended, thus my clarification "more convincing in terms of evidence and scientific theory". If you don't get this yet you are either just trying to smear me or mentally deficient.
 
I will handle point 2 above. Dealing with this issue requires expanding NIST's theory from Mackie and Jay's to include impact damage. If no one has a problem with that. This issue is fairly simple based on the amount of fireproofing removed.

First there is no evidence whatsoever of fireproofing being removed on the south side of WTC1. The theory NIST provides to support this claim is that the fireproofing was knocked off by debris during the impact.

Let's look at the SFRM on the floor trusses and ask the question: Could any debris possibly have impacted the floor trusses on the south side?

It would first have to get through 60 ft of the floor truss matrix (both primary and secondary trusses). Then there is the problem that gravity is pulling the debris downward toward the floor while it is traveling from the north side to the south edge of the core.

From NIST NCSTAR1-2B: According to the base case debris starts leaving the core on the far side (south side) at 0.40 seconds into the impact. The equation for distance with gravitational accelleration is d = (gt^2)/2 which means that the debris will fall downward 30" during that time. Since the truss system is 29" only deep, no debris can possibly hit the truss system on the south side of the building unless it is deflected upward in some way.

At this point (0.40 seconds into the impact) the momentum is less than 10% of the original momentum meaning that the velocity (43.3 mph) is also less than 10% of the original velocity (433 mph). Furthermore if the debris is deflected it will loose velocity so any deflected debris hitting the truss system will have a velocity significantly less the 43 mph.

From NCSTAR1, NIST did not include the possibility of insulation damage or dislodgement from structural vibration.

In conclusion, very little if any damage could have been done to the floor truss fire-proofing on the south side of the building. The more severe case would not significantly affect this result.
You have made some mistakes. You have made a few big errors. Oops.

You forgot debris reflected off the floor, going up. Your distance in the z axis is wrong. Your speed lacks any credible source and is wrong for all debris, may be correct for some.

I will leave the big errors for you, the truth engineer to fix. (your math has earned that post an F)
 
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At the present time we have a set of observations associated with the collapse of the Twin Towers and we have theories as to how and why the total failure of these buildings occurred. The primary observation is that an aircraft hit each tower causing structural damage and fires high up in the buildings. The secondary observation, one that is in need of explanation, is that, after a delay of over 40 minutes, the towers suddenly collapsed in a wave of destruction that moved rapidly downwards from the impact zones in each building, destroying the lower portions of the towers in about 15 seconds. The NIST theory as to why this happened is based on the assumption that the fires ignited by the spilled jet fuel heated the floor assemblies in the impact zones causing them to sag and pull in on the exterior walls. The NIST Report argues that the temperature attained by WTC floor assemblies depends mainly on how well, or poorly, they were insulated. In fact, a key conclusion of NIST’s study is that the thickness of the sprayed on fireproofing and the damage to this fireproofing due to aircraft impact were the most important parameters in predicting the time delay between the aircraft impacts and the ultimate catastrophic collapse of each building.

Unfortunately, the fact that the heating of the twin towers was very sensitive to the state of the fireproofing in these buildings does not of itself PROVE that fireproofing was the only, or indeed the most crucial, factor governing their eventual collapse. Indeed, NIST is using faulty logic when it proposes a collapse theory based on the assumption that the state of the fireproofing was such that the fires in certain parts of the towers attained temperatures sufficient to soften the steel. It is important to recognize that the temperature attained by the floor assemblies in the towers during 9/11 also depended on the heat energy input. NIST’s assumption that the spilled jet fuel and the “office combustibles” were the only sources of heat energy is a first order approximation that is only valid during the first 15 minutes or so of the fires. When subsequent heat sources derived from chemical reactions between the decomposition products formed by the pyrolysis of office combustibles and exposed metal surfaces, including the aircraft aluminum, are included in heat release calculations a significant amount of extra heat is predicted. When such heat sources are properly included into collapse models, a picture emerges where the state of the thermal insulation in the towers plays only a minor role in the collapse.
 
Again, your interpretation is not what I intended, thus my clarification "more convincing in terms of evidence and scientific theory". If you don't get this yet you are either just trying to smear me or mentally deficient.
You can not be an engineer. You are being beat up by other engineers, and lay people big time. You do not even understand the concepts of the OP as you proved the NIST theory did meet one of the concepts, and was thus a valid theory. Can you even say the same of any theories your "scholars" have?

Beat by lay people. That is plight of 9/11 truth.
 
This is different from: read it, thought about it, makes sense, believe it. Who has the guts to take an analytical look at the NIST theory they support?

So far, no one.

Says the guy whose analytical look at the crash of flight 93 has left him baffled as to whether an airliner crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11.

Priceless.
 
Says the guy whose analytical look at the crash of flight 93 has left him baffled as to whether an airliner crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11.

Priceless.

Just dropping in to cast aspersion Binglybert? Maybe it's because you have no good arguments for this.
 
First there is no evidence whatsoever of fireproofing being removed on the south side of WTC1. The theory NIST provides to support this claim is that the fireproofing was knocked off by debris during the impact.

Let's look at the SFRM on the floor trusses and ask the question: Could any debris possibly have impacted the floor trusses on the south side?

Here's a look at part of the south wall of WTC 1, shortly after the impact of flight 11. We don't see much thermal protection remaining. However, we don't know when that protection was removed, so we need to be careful about drawing any conclusions.

Except that this portion of the wall is on the ground. 700 feet away.

879046b25850d7b3a.jpg


And here's a look at the east and north sides of the south tower.

879046a66b7c96bf7.jpg


I'm going out on a limb and saying that I think fire protection was removed from steel.
 
Just dropping in to cast aspersion Binglybert? Maybe it's because you have no good arguments for this.
See my post above. Owlsatian eats little dogs like you for snacks between meals.

How's the hunt for the Boeing coming along? Plan to stalk the Snark next?
 
Just dropping in to cast aspersion Binglybert? Maybe it's because you have no good arguments for this.
Is your mind is frozen in woo? Like before you could understand calculus, you have fallen into the dark ages and joined the anti-intellectual group of morons for 9/11 lies and false information. As an engineer you are a disgrace to the entire profession due to your support of outright lies and false information on 9/11, and your failure to see those lies, and the abysmal math, logic, and physics you are murdering before our eyes. .

Plus a lay person has used facts to set you back to grade school. Bravo.
 
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A quick recap:

The fantasist who started the thread, "Jay Howard," has--predictably-- fled.

Gregory Urich, the world's most transparently-disguised fantasist, is prattling about falsifiability. He has neglected to mention that the pernicious and baseless myths promoted by his colleagues are completely unfalsifiable.

(Hey, Gregory, your imaginary conspiracy remains mathematically impossible.)

EVERYBODY here gets the idea that ALL aspects of the rationalist position are falsifiable.

NOBODY here regards the NIST Report as unfalsifiable.

To quote Pat Moynihan, "It's long past time to cut the crap."
 
Pomeroo:

The NIST "story" on the thermal insulation damage in WTC 1 & 2 is not capable of being falsified because it requires/assumes knowledge of the physical locations of fireproofing damage... something that is unknown and unknowable in a chaotic system such as the impact zones of a Twin Tower.

Thus on the critically important damage to the SFRM in the Twin Towers, NIST has this to say: “Fireproofing thickness and fireproofing damage due to aircraft impact is identified as the single most important parameter in the fire simulations”, (See NCSTAR 1-5G). NIST postulate that some SFRM may have been dislodged by impact-induced vibrations of the buildings even outside the directly impacted floors of each tower. But in NCSTAR 1-2 NIST confess that no visible information could be obtained on the extent of damage to the interior of the towers from the video or photographic record. Hence it is no surprise that NIST ultimately admit it was unable to estimate SFRM damage outside of the aircraft debris impact zone. Worse yet, even for surfaces within this zone we read: “thermal insulation was NOT included in the aircraft impact model”, (See NCSTAR 1-6 page 130). But reading further in NCSTAR 1-6 we discover that NIST assumed without proof that SFRM was considered to have been removed “if the room furnishings were damaged”, (See NCSTAR 1-6 page 129).

In NCSTAR 1 NIST claims that SFRM was dislodged on five floors (94 – 98) of WTC 1 and six floors (78 – 83) of WTC 2. Unfortunately this assertion is contradicted by the figures given in Chapter 5 of NCSTAR 1-6 that show significant SFRM removal was confined to four floors of WTC 1 and five floors of WTC 2. But perhaps this uncertainty is to be expected when we read on page 190 of NCSTAR 1-2 that the physics of the fuel impact and dispersion in the WTC aircraft impact events was not analyzed because “no single analysis technique was available… (to deal with) … fuel dispersion without significant uncertainties”.

UNFALSIFIABLE INDEED!
 
Pomeroo:

The NIST "story" on the thermal insulation damage in WTC 1 & 2 is not capable of being falsified because it requires/assumes knowledge of the physical locations of fireproofing damage... something that is unknown and unknowable in a chaotic system such as the impact zones of a Twin Tower.

Thus on the critically important damage to the SFRM in the Twin Towers, NIST has this to say: “Fireproofing thickness and fireproofing damage due to aircraft impact is identified as the single most important parameter in the fire simulations”, (See NCSTAR 1-5G). NIST postulate that some SFRM may have been dislodged by impact-induced vibrations of the buildings even outside the directly impacted floors of each tower. But in NCSTAR 1-2 NIST confess that no visible information could be obtained on the extent of damage to the interior of the towers from the video or photographic record. Hence it is no surprise that NIST ultimately admit it was unable to estimate SFRM damage outside of the aircraft debris impact zone. Worse yet, even for surfaces within this zone we read: “thermal insulation was NOT included in the aircraft impact model”, (See NCSTAR 1-6 page 130). But reading further in NCSTAR 1-6 we discover that NIST assumed without proof that SFRM was considered to have been removed “if the room furnishings were damaged”, (See NCSTAR 1-6 page 129).

In NCSTAR 1 NIST claims that SFRM was dislodged on five floors (94 – 98) of WTC 1 and six floors (78 – 83) of WTC 2. Unfortunately this assertion is contradicted by the figures given in Chapter 5 of NCSTAR 1-6 that show significant SFRM removal was confined to four floors of WTC 1 and five floors of WTC 2. But perhaps this uncertainty is to be expected when we read on page 190 of NCSTAR 1-2 that the physics of the fuel impact and dispersion in the WTC aircraft impact events was not analyzed because “no single analysis technique was available… (to deal with) … fuel dispersion without significant uncertainties”.

UNFALSIFIABLE INDEED!
You are wrong. Maybe you are right about NIST if you want to quibble, but you are wrong that you can not say the fireproofing was dislodged. Anyone can do experiments to show the energy of the impact did dislodge significant amounts of fireproofing in the WTC during impact. There are also other ways to show significant amounts of fireproofing were dislodged.

So the overall theory still meets the criteria of F. I guess you can play words with the NIST report but the overall theory of impact, fire, collapse, holds up to this wonderful F criteria.
 
The NIST "story" on the thermal insulation damage in WTC 1 & 2 is not capable of being falsified because it requires/assumes knowledge of the physical locations of fireproofing damage... something that is unknown and unknowable in a chaotic system such as the impact zones of a Twin Tower.

That is not what falsifiable means when we are talking about science vs pseudoscience.

Just because a quantity is unknown doesn't make estimating it an unfalsifiable proposition. On the contrary, it is very much falsifiable. The fact that the quantity is unknown and it seems highly unlikely that it can ever be known doesn't make it unfalsifiable.

There is, without question, evidence that could make NIST estimation of the fireproofing damage completely and utterly false. That makes is falsifiable.

The fact that we cannot reasonably expect to find evidence is immaterial. NIST suffers from the identical problem in proving their case. At best, all we can do is conduct more and more simulations or repeat experiments, and hope to conjecture about what really happened that day. That is not psuedoscience, at all.
 
Pomeroo:

The NIST "story" on the thermal insulation damage in WTC 1 & 2 is not capable of being falsified because it requires/assumes knowledge of the physical locations of fireproofing damage... something that is unknown and unknowable in a chaotic system such as the impact zones of a Twin Tower.

Thus on the critically important damage to the SFRM in the Twin Towers, NIST has this to say: “Fireproofing thickness and fireproofing damage due to aircraft impact is identified as the single most important parameter in the fire simulations”, (See NCSTAR 1-5G). NIST postulate that some SFRM may have been dislodged by impact-induced vibrations of the buildings even outside the directly impacted floors of each tower. But in NCSTAR 1-2 NIST confess that no visible information could be obtained on the extent of damage to the interior of the towers from the video or photographic record. Hence it is no surprise that NIST ultimately admit it was unable to estimate SFRM damage outside of the aircraft debris impact zone. Worse yet, even for surfaces within this zone we read: “thermal insulation was NOT included in the aircraft impact model”, (See NCSTAR 1-6 page 130). But reading further in NCSTAR 1-6 we discover that NIST assumed without proof that SFRM was considered to have been removed “if the room furnishings were damaged”, (See NCSTAR 1-6 page 129).

In NCSTAR 1 NIST claims that SFRM was dislodged on five floors (94 – 98) of WTC 1 and six floors (78 – 83) of WTC 2. Unfortunately this assertion is contradicted by the figures given in Chapter 5 of NCSTAR 1-6 that show significant SFRM removal was confined to four floors of WTC 1 and five floors of WTC 2. But perhaps this uncertainty is to be expected when we read on page 190 of NCSTAR 1-2 that the physics of the fuel impact and dispersion in the WTC aircraft impact events was not analyzed because “no single analysis technique was available… (to deal with) … fuel dispersion without significant uncertainties”.

UNFALSIFIABLE INDEED!


Excellent analysis. When you let NIST speak for themselves you can read for yourself how much assumption was built into their analysis.

I suppose we'll get the resident "debunking" mixed in with heaps of insults, but that won't change what NIST says for themselves.

How anyone can accept on faith that the official story is solid is a historical mystery and counter to true skepticism. Thanks again, as Sean Hannity would say, you're a great American!
 
This is going nowhere fast

In my last post, I described the two related classes of falsifying arguments that apply to NIST. They are the same as for any other hypothesis, about anything. This is just the standard tenets of the Scientific Method. If you're unsure about this, then please try to catch up on your own before posting further.

In the meantime, we've had a distracting argument that is, in effect, an attempt to shift the burden of proof. I don't know whether this applies to jay's thinking, since he has understandably gone missing, but it certainly applies to Gregory Urich:

Think of falsification criteria as claims by NIST, which, if shown to be false would invalidate the NIST theory.

Examples of falsification criteria: [...]

If those who are NIST supporters do a good job of this we will avoid straw-man arguments and accusations of straw-man arguments because we are in agreement on what the theory actually says.

This is different from: read it, thought about it, makes sense, believe it. Who has the guts to take an analytical look at the NIST theory they support?

So far, no one.
Emphasis added.

This is completely wrong.

To begin, it is not the responsibility of NIST's proponents to derive specific means to falsify their own hypothesis, not unless they are comparing it against another specific hypothesis or set of observations. There is, so far, no other competing hypothesis in sight. Instead, it is the responsibility of those with the competing hypothesis, or any hypothesis coming later to the table, to come up with such falsifying criteria. This is for two reasons.

Imprimus, as a defender of NIST, I am likely to be biased. There is no reason why you should be restricted to my list, and no reason you should want to, either.

Secundus, those proposing the new hypothesis will be more versed in its detail. They will be inherently more capable of devising such criteria, as they have had the opportunity to study NIST, but not vice versa.

Furthermore, the NIST theory has already demonstrated that it is falsifiable because it was compared against alternate hypotheses as it was developed. I speak primarily of "The Pancake Theory," as proposed by Eagar and others, but also the similar yet not identical results of the Weidlinger Associates, MIT, and Exponent Inc. studies. NIST describes in its report the distinctions -- that is to say, the "falsifying criteria" -- between all of these options, and gives its reasoning for why its result is the best fit to the observed data. Therefore, there is no doubt at all that the NIST theory is falsifiable. It has already been exposed to, and survived, scientific comparison against at least four competing theories. Q E D.

Before we go overboard in our criticism of Gregory Urich and his misapprehensions of the basic tenets of science, we should remark that he has, usefully, provided us with two working examples of trivially refuted alternate hypotheses -- a "practice deal," if you will. These are the following:

First there is no evidence whatsoever of fireproofing being removed on the south side of WTC1. The theory NIST provides to support this claim is that the fireproofing was knocked off by debris during the impact.

Let's look at the SFRM on the floor trusses and ask the question: Could any debris possibly have impacted the floor trusses on the south side?

It would first have to get through 60 ft of the floor truss matrix (both primary and secondary trusses). Then there is the problem that gravity is pulling the debris downward toward the floor while it is traveling from the north side to the south edge of the core.

From NIST NCSTAR1-2B: According to the base case debris starts leaving the core on the far side (south side) at 0.40 seconds into the impact. The equation for distance with gravitational accelleration is d = (gt^2)/2 which means that the debris will fall downward 30" during that time. Since the truss system is 29" only deep, no debris can possibly hit the truss system on the south side of the building unless it is deflected upward in some way.

At this point (0.40 seconds into the impact) the momentum is less than 10% of the original momentum meaning that the velocity (43.3 mph) is also less than 10% of the original velocity (433 mph). Furthermore if the debris is deflected it will loose velocity so any deflected debris hitting the truss system will have a velocity significantly less the 43 mph.
Gregory's hypothetical competitor concerns the fireproofing behavior at impact. Contrasted against the NIST hypothesis, we have two different models:

Gregory's Model: Aircraft debris is treated as ballistic projectiles, affected only by gravity, but with a steeply decelerating horizontal velocity as predicted by NIST. These chunks of debris all follow uniform curves reminiscent of a parabola, caternary, or brachistochrone. There is no way for these curves to remove fireproofing in a wide area as predicted by NIST, as structure would interfere with the trajectories.

NIST Model: Aircraft debris is treated with a rigorous LS-DYNA simulation, accounting for aircraft size and impact geometry, inelastic and elastic impact, secondary impact, secondary debris, effects of material strength, fluid behavior and fluid erosion, at varying levels of fidelity (geometry being at high fidelity, fluid effects relatively low but still modeled). This model excludes deflagration effects and momentum from rotating machinery. The model shows that fireproofing that is screened or shielded from impact by structure can still be affected, according to the precise location and interior geometry.

Stacking these two models against each other reveals instantly which is superior. It is immediately clear, from photographs of the impact if not a basic understanding of impact and fracture mechanics, that Gregory's Model is far too simple to be credible.

If a simplification was desired, perhaps the best analogue would not be to ballistics, but instead to the behavior of a turbulent fluid jet. It is immediately clear that vorticity can lead to such a jet affecting regions in the structure that are not line-of-sight from the jet's point of origin. This turbulent effect is but one of many that would have been present in the jet impacts, which are perhaps best described as turbulent heterogenous density flows at an initial speed of about 0.8 Mach.

Comparing the two theories, Gregory's Model is therefore falsified. The NIST model remains the best known hypothesis.

For the second example, Gregory provides us with an example of a logical error:

From NCSTAR1, NIST did not include the possibility of insulation damage or dislodgement from structural vibration.

In conclusion, very little if any damage could have been done to the floor truss fire-proofing on the south side of the building. The more severe case would not significantly affect this result.

This is, of course, incorrect. From NIST NCSTAR1-6A:

NIST NCSTAR1-6A said:
When a member is subjected to an impact, it will undergo various modes of vibration. These vibrations result in local cyclic accelerations that are transferred to the SFRM by forces at the interface between the steel and the SFRM. The forces are proportional to the mass of the SFRM, and if they exceed the adhesive or cohesive strength of the SFRM, the SFRM will separate from the member. Two limiting cases are considered:

  • Case 1 is a planar element with SFRM applied to one face of the element. This would be representative of SFRM applied to large webs and flanges of beams and columns. In this case, adhesive strength or cohesive strength normal to the surface would be the controlling SFRM properties.
  • Case 2 is a slender bar encased with SFRM. This would be representative of SFRM applied to the elements of the floor trusses. In this case, in-plane tensile strength and bond strength are the controlling SFRM properties.

[...]

The smallest required acceleration is about 40 g, which corresponds to a large bar having a thick layer of the higher density SFRM with low strength. At the other extreme, the required acceleration is about 730 g. For a 1.2 in. diameter bar with 2.5 in. thickness of SFRM and density of 19 pcf, which are representative of the conditions of the upgraded insulation on the floor trusses, the acceleration required to dislodge the SFRM would vary from 55 g to 230 g, depending on the strength characteristics within the assumed ranges given above.

The rest of the report goes on to demonstrate, by way of experiment, precisely what type of impact -- what projectile weight and speed -- sets up such a vibration. The g-loading values are seen to be too low to be credibly shaken loose by the gross structural motion, but easily within the expected vibrations on individual structural members caused by impacts of minor primary and secondary debris.

Any hypothesis that makes such an easily demonstrated logical error, as Gregory's second hypothesis does, is also falsified. Such a theory might be salvageable if correction of the logical reasoning leads to similar conclusions, but until it is fixed, it deserves no additional attention.

-----

Philosophical question for the board: Suppose we have a hypothesis that is "correct" -- somehow, through some twist in the fabric of space, we know that it is absolutely perfect in every detail. Is such a hypothesis falsifiable? Yes or no?

-----

Now, then, can we please start, if we're going to? Anyone?

The horse is shod, the armor is polished, lances sharpened, pennons are flying... yet the Black Knight is nowhere to be found, and the onlookers are growing restless. :D
 
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Just because a quantity is unknown doesn't make estimating it an unfalsifiable proposition. On the contrary, it is very much falsifiable. The fact that the quantity is unknown and it seems highly unlikely that it can ever be known doesn't make it unfalsifiable.

There is, without question, evidence that could make NIST estimation of the fireproofing damage completely and utterly false. That makes is falsifiable.

The fact that we cannot reasonably expect to find evidence is immaterial. NIST suffers from the identical problem in proving their case. At best, all we can do is conduct more and more simulations or repeat experiments, and hope to conjecture about what really happened that day. That is not psuedoscience, at all.

Absolutely correct.

I find Dr. Greening's continued odd behavior most disheartening, for many reasons -- not the least of which is that he, in my opinion, has advanced one of the only two credible competing hypotheses to NIST.
 
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