Why do people hate Jews?

[Dumbledore]

Thomas thanks for your post, but there is not more civilized way of being bigoted and racist. Europe as well as the rest of the world continues this line of thinking and living even though the holocaust as well and many other historic atrocities have shown us the civilized side of accepted bigotry and racism.

 

[marksman]

why no mention of even a little Jewish history in this thread?

Hey, I posted a detailed history and even cited a respectable source!

The original antisemitism was directed at Sephardi Jews

There were no Sephardic Jews until afte the antisemitic Roman diaspora.

to "Blood drinkers" also not true.

The blood libel was commenced in Britain and that's where Ashkenazi Jews were living, not Sephardic.

The term antisemitism was coined by a German racist in the early 1800s.

Yes, the antisemite Wilhelm Marr coined the phrase in a book railing against German Jews. Those Jews are Ashkenazi.

But this changed in around the 1900. Sephardis just did not weild power. So a new enemy (based on zionism) appeared, who were Ashkenazi Jews.

The term was coined in 1879 by Marr about Ashkenazi Jews in Germany. And while Marr was indeed railing against Zionism, that was only a small part of his screed (it also included the usual tropes about banking and shadow governments).

Ashkenazis are not related to Sephardi´s.

Sepharim are not merely semitic. Traditionally, Sephardic Jews hailed from the Mediterranean. Italian, Spanish and South American Jews are considered Sephardim. And they are related. The Ashkenazis originated from Jews fleeing northward from Spain, Portugal and Italy in the wake of the Inquisition at the end of the 1400's.

The Jews in the Middle East are known as Mizrahi Jews. And as far as I know, until World War II, nobody using the word "antisemitism" ever meant to refer to them.

King Bulan of Khazaria converted to Judasim in 740AD, and thus was born Ashkenizi Jews

That is a myth. There is no evidence of Khazar ancestry for Ashkenazi Jewry. It is theory devised and popularized in the 19th century, 9 centuries after the sacking and destruction of the Khazar kingdom. It is based on outmoded theories of descendance.

A 2000 genetic study comparing the genes of Ashkenazi, Sephardic Jews and Arabs indicates they all have a common ancestry.
-Hammer, M. F.; A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir (May 9 2000). "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

It is also nearer the Khazarian homeland (this is why yiddish sounds like a cross between German and Russian)

No, it sounds like a combination of German and Hebrew because that's what it is, and it didn't develop until the 16th and 17th centuries (not surprisingly, within a century after the Jews were kicked out of Spain, Portugal and Italy). There's no Russian in it at all, as far as I know. And Sephardim speak Ladino, a combination of Hebrew and Spanish.

 

[Cleon]

Wow, I didn't know anyone was still pushing the "Ashkenazim are descended from Khazars" bit. That theory's been dead and gone for years, even before we were able to track down and study the various genetic markers.

 

[Dumbledore]

Dustin Kesselberg How exactly are Jews blowing up hundreds of innocent people? What does this remark even mean? Are claiming that Jews spontaneously kill innocent people without cause or provocation? Furthermore are you claiming that Jews are somehow different from other people?

 

[davefoc]

Mycroft's response to Liszt's post about Jewish history

Wow. Wrong on so many levels.

It does seem that Liszt has put forth some claims that are at odds with modern views about Jewish history.

Ashkenazis are not genetically related to other Jews.
This seems to be false based on DNA studies. Ashkenazi Jews are related both to middle east Jews and to Europeans.

Sephardic Jews are semitic
This is true, but the term Sephardic is usually used to describe Jews who live or whose ancestors lived in or near Spain. They had a language (ladino) that fulfilled the same function as Yiddish did for the Ashkenazi Jews. Mizrahi Jews might have been a term more closely related to what Liszt had in mind when he used the term Sephardic Jews.

Anyway, most racism seems to me to stem from the Christian fundamentalists. not enough fun, too much mental.
It seems that antisemitism of some type is fairly widely distributed and the majority originates in areas where Christian fundamentalists are in the minority.

 

[Gurdur]

All of that post is more or less true except for the following:

.....Sepharim are not merely semitic.

this is roughly meaningless; no Jew at all regardless of branch would be "merely Semitic".

No, it sounds like a combination of German and Hebrew because that's what it is, and it didn't develop until the 16th and 17th centuries (not surprisingly, within a century after the Jews were kicked out of Spain, Portugal and Italy). There's no Russian in it at all, as far as I know. And Sephardim speak Ladino, a combination of Hebrew and Spanish.

This is wrong on the following:

1) there are 3 different main branches of Yiddish. The Yiddish branch spoken in western Russia and eastern Poland actually had a lot of Slavic words incorporated into it, including Russian ones; that branch has almost linguistically died out.

2) Not all Sephardi spoke Ladino by a long shot. Many communities of Sephardi spoke other dialects/languages/argots based on Hebrew mixed with other languages, such as Farsi.

 

[Dumbledore]

So Dustin Israel should sit back as a terrorist group launches missiles at its civilians. How would the US respond if terrorists were launching missiles at us from Mexico or Canada? We nearly had a nuclear war over the Cuban missile crisis, and that was just the threat of nuclear missiles off our shore.

 

[robinson]

I don't hate Jews. In fact, I really really like a lot of people who are Jewish, even though I didn't know they were Jews.

I don't really hate anybody these days. Can we change this topic to "Why do people dislike Jews?" Hate is such an ugly emotion.

 

[Cleon]

No, it sounds like a combination of German and Hebrew because that's what it is, and it didn't develop until the 16th and 17th centuries (not surprisingly, within a century after the Jews were kicked out of Spain, Portugal and Italy). There's no Russian in it at all, as far as I know. And Sephardim speak Ladino, a combination of Hebrew and Spanish.

That's actually not entirely correct.

As far as history goes: Yiddish is almost a thousand years old. The oldest written evidence of it, a siddur that says "may a good day come to him who carries this prayer book into the synagogue" in Yiddish, dates back to the 13th century.

Second, linguistically, Yiddish's root is Germanic, and it (obviously) has a lot of Hebrew influence, but it doesn't stop there. Depending on the regional dialect, Yiddish also has a lot of influence from Russian, Polish, and other central/eastern-european languages. (This also points away from the Khazar "theory" of Ashkenazim; The Khazars were Turkic, and spoke a distinctly Turkic language that is neither related to German nor Russian--nor Yiddish.)

Regarding the Sephardim; the Sephardim spoke/speak a number of languages. Ladino is the main one; however, it's not just Spanish and Hebrew, there is also a large Arabic component, as much of the language developed while the Sephardim lived under Muslim rule in Al-Andaluz (Andalucia). The Sephardim actually did pretty well under Muslim rule in Spain, especially when compared to their experience with the Christians, and after the expulsion many of them settled in various parts of the Arab/Muslim world; Morocco, Palestine, Turkey, etc. (As a result of this, to this day Mizrahim--Arab Jews--are often mistakenly referred to as Sephardim.)

 

[Thunder]

Until 100 years ago anti-Semitism was almost completely a christian phenomenon. I have no doubt that had christianity not taken hold in the roman empire and spread through europe, anti-semitism would not exist today.

as long as one jew exists, the christian philosophy is challenged. as long as one of jesus' fellow jews exists and says "uh uh...sorry...jesus was NOT the messiah"...there will be anti-semitism.

 

[Dumbledore]

No, as Dustin shows us people really do hate Jews for various reasons, antisemitism is just as real as any other form of racism.

 

[Dumbledore]

I don't think that you can simply blame christens for antisemitism. While their religion does hold some antisemitic views most christens have move passed these views. The real roots of antisemitism and its existence today are multifaceted and cannot be simply blamed on one group or cause.

 

[LibraryLady]

why no mention of even a little Jewish history in this thread?

The original antisemitism was directed at Sephardi Jews, who were called everything from "Christ Killers" (not true for 2 reasons - 1, it was the Romans, so let´s blame the Italians! and 2. The NT is a myth anyway) to "Blood drinkers" also not true. The term antisemitism was coined by a German racist in the early 1800s. Sephardi Jews are semitic.

But this changed in around the 1900. Sephardis just did not weild power. So a new enemy (based on zionism) appeared, who were Ashkenazi Jews.

Ashkenazis are not related to Sephardi´s. They have white skin, for example. The connection is Judaism - religiion, not race. King Bulan of Khazaria converted to Judasim in 740AD, and thus was born Ashkenizi Jews (near the caucus mountains, where the word caucasian comes from)

How does this explain Russian progroms? Ashkenazi Jews were discriminated against and killed just as the Sephardics were in Spain during the Inquisition. (Incidentally I am Ashkenazi)

The split between the two groups (and there are more than just these two groups) occured during the Diaspora when some Jews went to the Mediterranean countries including Spain, and some went to northern Europe, Germany, Poland, Russia, etc. There is no more racial difference between them than you would find between any other two cohesive groups. I was talking yesterday to a blonde Sephardic lady who obligingly spoke some Ladino for me.

These were the chaps killed by Hitler (plus many other peoples, of course). And this leads to the problem - sensibly, the Jewish homeland should have been a bit of Germany (Bavaria? It´s lovely there), which would suitably punish Germany, and not hassel the Palestinians.

But would have hassled the Germans, right?

It is also nearer the Khazarian homeland (this is why yiddish sounds like a cross between German and Russian)

Yiddish is a cross between German, Russian, Hebrew, and any other language that's handy at the moment. Different Jews speak different Yiddish--my parents spoke a heavily Russian variety.

Also, no one takes the Bible seriously, and it should not be used to justify creation of states. But is it this group who are today targeted by anti Jews - the non semetic peope who´s ancestors converted.

Who doesn't take the Bible seriously? Have you turned on the television on Sunday morning lately? Or are you referring to the Germans or Khazhaks? And I am Ashkenazi and Semitic.

I´ve had some problems explaining this to my Christian friends, who tell me that Jesus was a white man (look at the paintings!) and this is why he was persecuted. Seriously, this has happened.

He was persecuted because he was white? I've always thought Jesus would have looked something like my oldest brother.

Snip

also, the use of the word antisemitic implies a 2000 year old conspiracy, even though most stopped blaming semitic Jews 100 years ago and switched to blaming non semetic for the world´s ills

Which would explain the Holocaust 60 years ago?

Is this being pedantic? Sorry if it is. It doesn´t really answer the question either.

No, it's being uninformed.

 

[marksman]

All of that post is more or less true except for the following:

this is roughly meaningless; no Jew at all regardless of branch would be "merely Semitic".

That's a good point. Thanks for the clarification.

1) there are 3 different main branches of Yiddish. The Yiddish branch spoken in western Russia and eastern Poland actually had a lot of Slavic words incorporated into it, including Russian ones; that branch has almost linguistically died out.

I didn't know that! Thanks!

2) Not all Sephardi spoke Ladino by a long shot. Many communities of Sephardi spoke other dialects/languages/argots based on Hebrew mixed with other languages, such as Farsi.

I didn't mean to be so broad. I apologize. I actually know quite a few Persian Jews and they would beat me senseless (metaphorically) for my careless words about Sephardic Jews. (Although they're the ones who introduced me to the term "Mizrahi Jews" after metaphorically beating me senseless when I referred to them as Sephardic.)

That's actually not entirely correct.

Gurdur beat you to it!

 

[Cleon]

Gurdur beat you to it!

.יאָ, אָבער ער ניט קענט ייִדיש

 

[Thunder]

One man writes one book about Jews in Khazaria, and suddenly all Ashkenazi Jews are from the Khazars. Wow.

The Nazis claimed that the Jews were an evil Semitic tribe...now anti-Semites say that we are not Semites at all...but Turko-Caucasians.

Whats next....are we Japanese?

 

[MaGZ]

MaGZ.

First prove that there is a steady diet of holocaust propoganda. Then ask what effect that steady diet has.

You aren't exactly covering your race in glory.

List of Holocaust films
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_films

Are there any films about the Armenian genocide?
Any films about the Soviet starvation of the Ukraine?
Any films about the expulsion of Arabs in Palestine in 1948?

I will let you in on a secret. The Jews control Hollywood.

 

[Thunder]

i fail to see how "Amistad" helped the Jews.
i fail to see how "Dances with Wolves" helped the Jews.
i fail to see how "Malcolm X" helped the Jews.
i fail to see how "Braveheart", "Dr. Shevago", "Roots", "Glory", "7 Years in Tibet", "Come See the Paradise", "Ghandi", "Mississippi Burning", and all the other movies about ethnicities suffering...helped the Jews.

There have been many movies about people suffering, not just about the Jews.

Once again, MaGz, you are wrong.

 

[MaGZ]

Simple question where is the proof that jews control the media? Need I remind you that jews working in Hollywood and the media, and some having ownership in media companies hardly constitutes a media controlled conspiracy. Speaking of which it is hard for me believe that the fundie christens are being persecuted in this country, for this group currently has the president by the balls and is having laws and policies solely written for their beliefs and comfort. I think the real problem that fundie christens have with the media is simply because of the self righteous distance then choose to place themselves at from the rest of their culture and society and therefore the media.

I will soon have an updated list of Jews who run things in Hollywood. I will post it in the near future. The thread will be titled "Jewish Control of the Media".

Who Rules America?
http://www.natall.com/who-rules-america/

 

[a_unique_person]

Nor did I say it was. I said it was the roots of antisemitism.

It wasn't the roots either. It was imperialism, pure and simple, played inhumanely, against numerous races. It was brutal and unfair to the Jews, but it wasn't the roots of anti semitism, any more than it was the roots of hatred of other ethnic groups. It is a testament to Judaism's resilience that it has survived so long, when so many other cultures from the same times have disappeared long ago. The Romans themselves, Etruscans, Aztecs, Ancient Greeks, Celts, Carthaginians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Hittites, Macedonians, and many, many more, all gone, long ago.