Torin Wolf

The White River Band Cherokee appear to be based in Oklahoma

http://www.bauuinstitute.com/Native/oklahoma.html

or Arkansas

so GED in those two states...

Oklahoma inidicates age =16 minimum, but states it can vary from center to center.

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/TGA/JobSeeker/INeedAGED.htm

Arkansas seems the same

http://dwe.arkansas.gov/ged.htm

From the PBS transcript:

NARRATOR: Private First Class Torin Howling Wolf is a Cherokee who grew up in the White River Tribe, in Kansas.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3106_combatdo.html

However, you need to be 18 to take a GED in Kansas without special dispensation. Even then you have to be at least 16:

http://www.kansasregents.org/adult_ed/ged.html#younger
 
"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.
 
"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.

Considering that the subject in question is trying to make an argument from authority, it is not an ad hominem to address his alleged credentials.
 
Gravy's already pointed out in the second post this fellow is rehashing the same stuff we've all heard before and that had no merit before.

Since that's already out of the way, pointing out fallicies in his list of credentials isn't ad hominem. It's just the only way to make this thread any different from the rest.
 
"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.

The article, the only article, he is mentioned in, makes it quite clear that we should listen to him because of his long list of credentials, which they go on and on about, so I do not think it is an ad hom argument.

Besides, we are simply trying to vet his credentials, not attacking him for them.

TAM:)
 
Considering that the subject in question is trying to make an argument from authority, it is not an ad hominem to address his alleged credentials.

I don't see anyone addressing the claims. I see "kook" "kool aid drinker" "know nothing" and a lot of witch hunting.

How about his claims? Just because you believe you addressed previous arguments is not an excuse to suffer the fallacy of ad hominem.
 
"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.


He's pinching out the same crap that's been dealt with over and over on this forum. We're beyond that BS now and we'd appreciate it if you could catch up. The whole point of his story is an attempt to back up this crap with his alleged authority.

Ideally, since this crap's been shown to be nonsense already, this guy doesn't even need to be addressed. However, there are apparently a lot of gullible people out there who feel that this guy somehow makes everything they believe true again...
 
Ironically, Torin signed his papers to join the army on September 11th, 2000. He knew something was wrong with the official 9/11 story when his army handlers took his squad into a room just in time to watch the buildings collapse.

There wasn't even an "official story" back then.
 
I don't see anyone addressing the claims. I see "kook" "kool aid drinker" "know nothing" and a lot of witch hunting.

How about his claims? Just because you believe you addressed previous arguments is not an excuse to suffer the fallacy of ad hominem.

as was just mentioned, his claims are old, well discussed claims, each and every one. If you wanna find the discussion of any of his claims, do a search of the site here, and you will find it.

This thread, has become a vetting of his credentials, so why are you taking him at his word?

TAM:)
 
yes he appears to have known, even before the buildings collapsed, that the "official story" which at that time was "two planes hit the towers, this is probably the work of terrorism" was not right...

That part is truely laughable.

TAM:)
 
FTA:
The official story we've been told about 9/11 is absolutely, physically impossible.

Those words are not just backed up with his qualifications because his presentation goes through the hard physics as well.
See, it doesn't give us the details of the presentation so what is he claiming?

The presentation moves on and goes through some of the just plain crazy theories of why the towers fell, such as space beams, holograms, missiles, orbs, pterodactyls, etc., and easily debunks them. Torin then adds, “There is evidence most of these are put out by the government as disinfo.” Then explains how the White House, in violation of the law, has bought 28 billion, “Billion with a B” in fake news.
Now any crazy theory couldn't have been thought up by "truthers," they are far too smart.

NIST never models what happens after the collapse initiation, and even what they do model before that is easily debunked.
This is how he dismisses NIST, "easily debunked." A 10,000 page paper is never "easily debunked."

Torin uses his expertise to explain to the audience how and why a real progressive collapse occurs and subsequently why the WTC was not a progressive collapse. “The biggest problem with the argument,” Torin explains. “Time.”
Once again, the article doesn't go into detail as to what Torin said just that he explained it well enough for the author to be swayed.

Referring to WTC 2:
How long did it take for the building to fall in reality? About 8.6 Seconds.
Very few "truthers" accept such a low number, most put it around 12-14.

For the towers to fall at so close to free fall speed, over 110,000 separate and independent structural support points had to fail simultaneously.
No source is cited for these 110,000 that have to fail.

Torin then gives his expert analysis on building 7 for about five minutes.
Once again, no explanation given on what his expert opinion was followed by the usual "truther" crap on WTC 7

He then brings up the EPA, not really central to a CT or OCT story. Also mentions the steel being shipped off before being tested, blatantly false search here if you want why.

All of this followed by the thermite/thermate/super quadruple therm(ate/ite) claim...

Then more common CT theory, FBI's most wanted list (once your most wanted you can't be most most wanted).

Here he repeats the motive for Bush and takes a shot at his fellow soldier:
An invasion of Afghanistan that was on Bush's desk two days before 9/11, over 655,000 admitted dead in the spreading war in the middle east, cheap heroin out of Afghanistan that the former Taliban government destroyed, soon to be full scale war in Iran, several thousand dead troops, and an oppressive police state at home being enforced by some of the returning aggravated felons that were doing the same in Iraq.

Followed by an argument that may or may not be true that 15000 - 17000 U.S. troops are dead. All wrapped up with a Q&A and the evils of law enforcement speech.
Nothing new or earth shattering presented (maybe there was but we didn't get to see the presentation or even get a synopsis of it), just the opinion of one man who claims to have great/impossible credentials.
 
Torins insight as a combat nurse reveals that the actual amount of dead troops numbers around 15,000-17,000, not the 3,500 we have been told.
:eye-poppi

Any evidence M. Wolf? I'm sure 12 000 to 14 000 families would like to know.
 
:eye-poppi

Any evidence M. Wolf? I'm sure 12 000 to 14 000 families would like to know.

I'd like to see a few names of troops killed in Iraq who are not listed here: icasualties.org

That can't be too hard if there are 12,000+ to choose from.
 
RedIbis, click the search button at the top of the page. Every one of Wolf's claim have been addressed in-depth by some very knowledgeable people, and most have been addressed numerous times.

That said, if the guy wants to make an argument from authority, then proceeds to spew the same old tired idiocy - expect skeptics to be skeptical. Not to mention, the guys credentials just don't add up. He was a nurse in the Army, never went to college, and somehow became a CD expert who has performed over 100 CDs? Since ......when? CD's don't just happen overnight.

Just in case some of you skipped the article - Walter Mitty here claims to be, or at some point was a:

- combat nurse in the Army.
- building construction contractor(on skyscrapers no less).
- certified structural welder.
- certified asbestos and hazardous materials worker.
- experienced demolitions expert with 100 CDs to his credit
- teacher
- radio show host

......and he looks so young!!

In essence, he is implying that he is an expert in skyscaper construction, controlled demolitions and asbestos removal - all of which are standard CTist talking points.

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as was just mentioned, his claims are old, well discussed claims, each and every one. If you wanna find the discussion of any of his claims, do a search of the site here, and you will find it.

This thread, has become a vetting of his credentials, so why are you taking him at his word?

TAM:)

I am not taking him at his word. I was making an observation that the rapid response to the article on this thread was based on attacking the person, not his claims.

I would even say that some of the article appears at first glance to be exaggerated. I have now idea who the guy is or what he claims. It doesn't matter, I wouldn't judge him personally until I had gone through his claims.
 
- building construction contractor
- certified structural welder.

snip

- experienced demolitions expert with 100 CDs to his credit

Maybe his construction contractor and welder careers didn't turn out so well... :confused:
 
Maybe his construction contractor and welder careers didn't turn out so well... :confused:


You have it backwards.

Add to his resume the fact that he designed and implemented well over 100 controlled demolitions. He was not just helping at a lower level in the demolitions - he was the guy responsible for calling the shots. Afterwards, he became a certified structural steel welder and worked in heavy and mega construction for over 5 years in locations around the world including several skyscrapers.


So our CD shots calling bigwig left that gig to become........... a welder? :rolleyes:

ETA: ......after which he hung up the torch to join the Army to be a nurse. Hum. The guy's career progression would seem to be precisley backwards!
 
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He's all things to all men.....

...and a looming disaster for the 'truth' movement
 

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