• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Was Christopher Columbus obsessed with the Bible

DOC

Philosopher
D
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,959
Yes, From our school history books we seem to get the impression that Columbus was just a great adventurer with a a talent for sailing but apparently for some reason we weren't taught that Columbus also wrote a book of Prophesies and the reason for "his" mission was quite different.

From Wiki's article entitled "The Book of Prophesies"

The Book of Prophecies is a compilation of apocalyptical religious revelations written by Christopher Columbus in the 15th and 16th centuries C.E.

This journal of sorts conveys the medieval notion that in order for the end of the world or the second coming of Jesus Christ to occur, certain events must first be enacted:

1. Christianity must be spread throughout the world

2. The Garden of Eden must be found - It was the common belief in the Middle Ages that the biblical Garden of Eden must have been on the top of a crag or mountaintop so that it would not have been affected by the first destruction of the world by flood. Upon arriving in Venezuela in 1498, Columbus must have surely thought that the verdant crags of Venezuela bore the garden of the Old Testament of the Bible.

3. A Last Crusade must take back the Holy Land from the Muslims - It was also believed that when Christ comes, he will come back in the place he lived and died; Jerusalem.

4. A Last World Emperor must be chosen - Columbus had chosen, at least in his mind, that the Catholic Kings, Ferdinand and Isabella, would fulfill this position due to the vast imperial power and religious conviction the Spanish monarchs claimed. A last world emperor would be necessary to lead the aforementioned crusade against the muslims and to greet Christ at Jerusalem once the previous steps had been completed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Prophecies
 
Last edited:
From the book "What if Jesus had never been born" by D. James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe:

"... Columbus saw his voyage as fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied about the heathen turning to the true God. About a decade after his expedition, he wrote:

It was the Lord who put into my mind (I could feel His hand upon me) to sail to the Indies. All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures... Our Lord Jesus Christ desired to perform a very obvious miracle in the voyage to the Indies."

The footnote for the Columbus quote is:

Christopher Columbus, "The Book of Prophecies", quoted in John Eidsmoe, "Columbus and Cortez, Conquerors for Christ: The Controversy, The Conquest, The Mission, The Visions" (Green Forest,AR, New Leaf Press, 1992).
 
Last edited:
9574692e8b3d6310.jpg
 
Columbus - India - Moslem connection

Here's an interesting take on the reason for the Indies search.

From the article:

Christopher Columbus, The Catholic

by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

"Most of the prophecies from Isaiah which Columbus quotes refer to the restoration of Jerusalem and its future glory. Once again Islam comes into the picture. Constantinople, the gateway to the Far East fell into Moslem hands. By the year 1500 the Turks had conquered all the territory up to the very edge of the republic of Venice. It was not until the battle of Lepanto (October 7, 1571) that Christian forces stemmed the Moslem tide into Europe. Ever since, October 7th is the feast of Our Lady of the Rosary to whom the Pope credited the saving of Christendom.


What is not commonly known is that the growing power of the followers of Mohammed had closed the normal pathway from Europe to the Orient. In God's providence, this is what occasioned the search for another way to the Indies. Most historians claim that this was the dominant motive for Columbus going west so that the wealth of the East might be found. The Book of Prophecies shows the opposite. Commercial interests were certainly prominent in the minds of others. But Columbus had deeper spiritual interests at heart. It was surely part of God's mysterious design that Columbus should have planted the true faith in the New World at the same time that Islam was overrunning Africa, the Near East, and was being driven out of Southern Europe.

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Christopher_Columbus/Christopher_Columbus_002.htm
 
Last edited:
So now we know.

The guy who was such a tyrant and incompetent governor that Spain* had to remove him from office and arrest him had the Bible in his heart.


(* Spain being the same country who, a few short years later, gave us such charming figures as Hernando Cortez.)
 
Oh, and DOC?

The guy also worshipped Fernando and Isabella, those lovely Catholics who, while at the same time funding Columbus, were also running that lovely little campaign known as the Spanish Inquisition*.

Yeah. Swell guy.



DOC, you have this severe addiction to historical myopia. Contrary to the impression you might be getting at school, history is not about the factoids--it's about the context.


(* Fernando and Isabella were in power after invading and kicking out the Moors from southern Spain--Moorish (Muslim) Andalucia (Al-Andaluz) was one of the few times in history where Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in relative harmony. Relative Harmony -> The Spanish Inquisition. What a show.)
 
Last edited:
I don't know where you got your schooling, DOC. I was not taught that he was "just a great adventurer..." I was taught that he was looking to make money by finding a shorter way to sail to India. Perhaps your deficient education has something to do with your ... nah, not even that would explain it.
 
DOC said:
4. A Last World Emperor must be chosen - Columbus had chosen, at least in his mind, that the Catholic Kings, Ferdinand and Isabella, would fulfill this position due to the vast imperial power and religious conviction the Spanish monarchs claimed. A last world emperor would be necessary to lead the aforementioned crusade against the muslims and to greet Christ at Jerusalem once the previous steps had been completed.
Click to expand...

Yes, the number of people who have been entirely confident that Jesus will return in their lifetimes is surprisingly large. Folks have been predicting His return for ~2000 years. But I am sure the ones who are predicting it in the next few years are right.

. . . . . . . . . . .
DOC, I do want to give you credit for being open-minded enough to consider Catholics to be Christians. We sometimes come across fundamentalists who believe that "Papists are not true followers of Christ."
 
Anyone want to mention that the Portuguese turned Columbus down because it was so obvious that his calculations for the earth's circumference were completely wrong?

Yes, DOC, Columbus was obsessed with a religiously messianic/apocalyptic veiw of the world. Anyone with a passing interest in the topic is aware of this. He considered himself chosen for the task of finding a new passage to the Indies. He was an incompetent judge of the size of the world and discovered the New World by accident because of this incompetence. And he used his messianic/apocalyptic view as justification to kill Taino when they wouldn't tell him where the gold was.

So, what is your point? That people who think they know the will of God sometimes happen to set in motion a chain of events that changes the world? Even though what these people actually did was fairly evil? People who think they know the will of God also tortured and killed countless Jews in the Inquisition. Is there, perhaps, a problem with thinking you know the will of God?
 
DOC said:
Here's an interesting take on the reason for the Indies search.

From the article:

Christopher Columbus, The Catholic

by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

"Most of the prophecies from Isaiah which Columbus quotes refer to the restoration of Jerusalem and its future glory. Once again Islam comes into the picture. Constantinople, the gateway to the Far East fell into Moslem hands. By the year 1500 the Turks had conquered all the territory up to the very edge of the republic of Venice. It was not until the battle of Lepanto (October 7, 1571) that Christian forces stemmed the Moslem tide into Europe. Ever since, October 7th is the feast of Our Lady of the Rosary to whom the Pope credited the saving of Christendom.


What is not commonly known is that the growing power of the followers of Mohammed had closed the normal pathway from Europe to the Orient. In God's providence, this is what occasioned the search for another way to the Indies. Most historians claim that this was the dominant motive for Columbus going west so that the wealth of the East might be found. The Book of Prophecies shows the opposite. Commercial interests were certainly prominent in the minds of others. But Columbus had deeper spiritual interests at heart. It was surely part of God's mysterious design that Columbus should have planted the true faith in the New World at the same time that Islam was overrunning Africa, the Near East, and was being driven out of Southern Europe.

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Christopher_Columbus/Christopher_Columbus_002.htm
Click to expand...

What a thoroughly wacky interpretation that completely neglects what Columbus actually did once he got there and the return trips and all the pre-sail negotiations.

Is it not possible for one human being to have two motivations? Messianism and commercial interests?

And, I'm sorry, but it is commonly known by anyone who cares that bypassing the Muslim intermediaries in the Levant was the motivation for his voyage. It was the same reason the Potuguese headed south to sail around the tip of Africa in search of a passage to India that they could control. He could have taken that route, but the Portuguese already had it locked up. He was looking for a different way, and he thought he could get there faster with less hassle based on wrong calculations.
 
Ichneumonwasp said:
He was looking for a different way, and he thought he could get there faster with less hassle based on wrong calculations.
Click to expand...

That is why he had such a hard time selling his idea. He was a lousy cartographer. If he hadn't accidentally stumbled upon continents that he did not know to exist then he and his crew would have died in the vast ocean.
 
Ichneumonwasp said:
People who think they know the will of God also tortured and killed countless Jews in the Inquisition. Is there, perhaps, a problem with thinking you know the will of God?
Click to expand...


Well what is not realized to many is that back then the Church had a lot a power and was actually considered superior to the state in some places. Going against the church was considered similar to treason. Much like going against the interests of the United States or any other country can be considered treason. The penalty for treason in the United States can be death. Also some people believe that there is torture going on by this country in places around the world.

And If you ask the Palestinians and Arabs they would tell you the Jews are not so innocent in the area of killing and torture.

If you go against a kingdom or a country your going to pay a heavy price. And doesn't the Bible say people who go against the kingdom of God are going to pay a heavy price. I'm not saying the actions of the Church were correct back then, but they believed they were protecting God's kingdom. Much like the US and Israel believe they are protecting their country (kingdom) by their tough and militaristic actions which includes much killing, and according to some --torture.
 
Last edited:
Foster Zygote said:
If he hadn't accidentally stumbled upon continents that he did not know to exist then he and his crew would have died in the vast ocean.
Click to expand...


Maybe that's why so many of the great explorers who greatly advanced civilization were devout Christians (and actually evangelists like Leif Ericson and Magellan). If you believe in a God and a afterlife your going to be more willing to do very dangerous things.

"It is fair to say that Magellan believed in God — Magellan's will, written in 1519, shows he was quite obviously a firm believer in God and Jesus, he paid some monks on his departure to pray for his success, and he managed to have many of the native peoples he encountered baptized on his voyages — it is also fair to say that he had rationalist leanings: "The church says the earth is flat," wrote Magellan, "but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."* (Magellan witnessed the solar eclipse of 17 April 1520.)"

From the Ronald Bruce Meyer website

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/0427a-almanac.htm

Sounds like Magellan put more faith in God than the earthly Church, much like Thomas Jefferson.

Maybe Dr. James Kennedy was right -- this would be a much different world if Jesus had not been born.
 
Last edited:
DOC said:
Maybe Dr. James Kennedy was right -- this would be a much different world if Jesus had not been born.
Click to expand...


Jesus' birth is insignificant...as was he. It is Paul who made the difference.
 
DOC said:
Maybe that's why so many of the great explorers who greatly advanced civilization were devout Christians (and actually evangelists like Leif Ericson and Magellan). If you believe in a God and a afterlife your going to be more willing to do very dangerous things.
Click to expand...
Nope. Doesn't explain why it wasn't Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc., who made those voyages. After all, they all believe in gods and an afterlife.

It's because the vast majority of Europeans at the time were Christians.
 
DOC said:
Well what is not realized to many is that back then the Church had a lot a power and was actually considered superior to the state in some places. Going against the church was considered similar to treason. Much like going against the interests of the United States or any other country can be considered treason. The penalty for treason in the United States can be death. Also some people believe that there is torture going on by this country in places around the world.

And If you ask the Palestinians and Arabs they would tell you the Jews are not so innocent in the area of killing and torture.

If you go against a kingdom or a country your going to pay a heavy price. And doesn't the Bible say people who go against the kingdom of God are going to pay a heavy price. I'm not saying the actions of the Church were correct back then, but they believed they were protecting God's kingdom. Much like the US and Israel believe they are protecting their country (kingdom) by their tough and militaristic actions which includes much killing, and according to some --torture.
Click to expand...

Um, who are these many to whom you refer? I don't know of anyone older than twelve who doesn't know of the church's power in the high Middle Ages and Renaissance.

Thank you for proving the point I made earlier. There seems to be a problem with folks who think they know the will of God. They try to kill others who don't fit their pet profile. Perhaps you think you know the will of God? You know who should burn in Hell, who should be tortured on the rack, burned at the stake? These decisions should be under the provenance of fallible men?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom