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An email from a Conspiracy theorist, and I have no idea how

Thanks for your comments of various kinds.

However, the floors cannot transfer any real gravity loads from perimeter columns to the core columns.

The floors only supported gravity loads on the floors themselves and carried those to the columns. As a diaphragm each floor distributed lateral wind loads between the columns and provided lateral support for the columns. Finally it provided stiffness to resist torsional movement of the tower.

But the floors could not transfer gravity load from, e.g. a damaged perimeter wall to the core columns. It is quite clear from the floor connection to the columns - only a hinge connection - the floor hangs on the column - and from the floor trusses themselves - very little ability to transfer shear.

This means that the NIST proposal of load redistribution to the core (!) when the outer east wall buckles and that global collapse ensues is BS. Gravity loads on the east wall may be only be redistributed to the north and south walls via the spandrels (the horizontal bracings at each floor level). Only local collapse may ensue.

Thus - when the east wall collapses at floor 82, you would expect only the east wall above to fall straight down pulling maybe some bits of the north and south walls with it. The floors above would just shear off the east wall columns and the whole section above would remain in place - except the east wall. The core would evidently remain standing together with the complete west wall and what remains of the south and north walls.
 
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Heiwa said:
Thanks for your comments of various kinds.

However, the floors cannot transfer any real gravity loads from perimeter columns to the core columns.

The floors only supported gravity loads on the floors themselves and carried those to the columns. As a diaphragm each floor distributed lateral wind loads between the columns and provided lateral support for the columns. Finally it provided stiffness to resist torsional movement of the tower.

But the floors could not transfer gravity load from, e.g. a damaged perimeter wall to the core columns. It is quite clear from the floor connection to the columns - only a hinge connection - the floor hangs on the column - and from the floor trusses themselves - very little ability to transfer shear.

This means that the NIST proposal of load redistribution to the core (!) when the outer east wall buckles and that global collapse ensues is BS. Gravity loads on the east wall may be only be redistributed to the north and south walls via the spandrels (the horizontal bracings at each floor level). Only local collapse may ensue.

Thus - when the east wall collapses at floor 82, you would expect only the east wall above to fall straight down pulling maybe some bits of the north and south walls with it. The floors above would just shear off the east wall columns and the whole section above would remain in place - except the east wall. The core would evidently remain standing together with the complete west wall and what remains of the south and north walls.
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I noticed that you couldn't be bothered to respond to Newton's Bit or myself specifically, and instead, you've decided to restate your original position without analysis, evidence or calculations.
 
The Almond said:
I noticed that you couldn't be bothered to respond to Newton's Bit or myself specifically, and instead, you've decided to restate your original position without analysis, evidence or calculations.
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Reason being of course that it is irrelevant. When the east wall collapses locally at floor 82 for whatever reason, only the east wall above will fall down due to the way the tower or actually the floors were designed - as clarified in my answer to all. Global collapse will not ensue.
 
Heiwa said:
Reason being of course that it is irrelevant. When the east wall collapses locally at floor 82 for whatever reason, only the east wall above will fall down due to the way the tower or actually the floors were designed - as clarified in my answer to all. Global collapse will not ensue.
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You've been trying really hard to sound like an engineer, so try this -

Look up "hat truss", vis-a-vis the Twin Towers, and what it was designed to do.

Report back, engineer-fashion.
 
Wiki said:
The towers also incorporated a "hat truss" or "outrigger truss" located between the 107th and 110th floors, which consisted of six trusses along the long axis of core and four along the short axis. This truss system allowed some load redistribution between the perimeter and core columns and supported the transmission tower. It was found to play a key role in the collapse sequence.[6]
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Wiki said:
After the impacts had severed exterior columns and damaged core columns, the loads on these columns were redistributed. The hat trusses at the top of buildings played a significant role in this redistribution of the loads in the structure.[3]
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Wiki said:
At this point, the core of WTC 1 could be imagined to be in three sections. There was a bottom section below the impact floors that could be thought of as a strong, rigid box, structurally undamaged and at almost normal temperature. There was a top section above the impact and fire floors that was also a heavy, rigid box. In the middle was the third section, partially damaged by the aircraft and weakened by heat from the fires. The core of the top section tried to move downward, but was held up by the hat truss. The hat truss, in turn redistributed the load to the perimeter columns.
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You learn something new everyday.

Cheers,
SLOB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center#_note-NIST-chapter1
 
Belz... said:
Heiwa, maybe you should stick with non-building related work. Gardening, perhaps.
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Hmm. Having read this entire thread, and having paid particular attention to posts by The Almond, Newtons Bit, and SLOB (among others), I half suspect that gardening might be slightly beyond Heiwa's functional capacity. If this thread is any indication of Heiwa's capabilities - and I can only assume that he/she intended it as representative of his/her capabilities since he/she claimed herein to be a "structural engineer" and then failed utterly to provide any rational responses to legitimate questions thereafter - sadly, I suspect that consultation with a vocational expert as to the types of remunerative vocations that Heiwa might be best suited for would garner a result that includes the phrase, "Would you like fries with that?"
 
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Dave Rogers said:
Aren't you forgetting the hat truss?

Dave
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OK - so after the east wall on the 82nd floor buckled the east wall above was hanging only on the hat trusses up at the 106th floor that then redistributed that load to the core. Hat trusses are supposed to be able transfer loads as shear. But were the hat trusses strong enough? If so, the east wall above the 82nd floor would not have dropped down ... and no global collapse would have ensued.
 
Heiwa said:
OK - so after the east wall on the 82nd floor buckled the east wall above was hanging only on the hat trusses up at the 106th floor that then redistributed that load to the core. Hat trusses are supposed to be able transfer loads as shear. But were the hat trusses strong enough? If so, the east wall above the 82nd floor would not have dropped down ... and no global collapse would have ensued.
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What if the east core columns were damaged by the impact and fire also?
 
Heiwa said:
Thanks for your comments of various kinds.

However, the floors cannot transfer any real gravity loads from perimeter columns to the core columns.
Click to expand...

Translation: "Wait a minute! I can't possibly counter those arguments. These are people that know their stuff. Better just ignore it and restate my original statements. Maybe it'll stick if I repeat it often enough."
 
Funny not one of these so called "engineers for truth" has written a paper, a scientific paper, proving their theories, and presented them to Ron Paul, or Kusinich, or even obama or hillary. Do you not think they, or even DEM members of congress would love to have evidence of the cover up...

TAM:)
 
Alferd_Packer said:
What if the east core columns were damaged by the impact and fire also?
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Yes, what if.

Let's look first at the impact as shown on videos. The plane arrives and touches the south wall - on some videos there is a flash - and then during 0.2 seconds the plane slices through the south wall perimeter steel columns and the floors. No fires, explosions, no parts thrown backwards during 0.25 seconds.

About 30 steel perimeter columns are apparently cut at two locations each - top and bottom iwo alleged contact with the plane - and the perimeter column pieces are pushed into the building during this short time. The plane is undamaged. It disappears undamaged into the building. Afterwards we see a hole that is the shape of a plane. Not one piece of wall or plane drops down on the south side of WTC2.

Thus - the 30 steel perimeter columns and the floors did not resist the plane at all. They just gave way and were pushed into the tower. You get the impression that the south wall was made of paper. There is no real impact during 0.25 seconds.

Many persons believe all public media and amateur videos of the impact (sic) - total, about 20 or 30, are simple fakes - Hollywood style. I think so too! A plane cannot just slice through a wall with closely spaced steel columns and disappear. Some plane parts would bounce against the perimeter columns and be flown backwards.

I would have expected that the perimeter columns iwo the plane wings were just cut in one location and that the top and bottom parts were bent inwards, but no. All columns were cut in two locations with the bit between missing. If you fake the 'impact' it is easier to cut off the columns at two places each leaving a missing piece - a hole looking like a plane. To cut the column in only one location and then bend the two parts inward is more complicated.

Thus the plane was 100% intact after passing the south wall ... and then it apparently stopped inside the tower ... as there is no hole on the north side, where you would expect the plane to exit.

On some public videos you actually see the nose of the plane exit intact ... but on later edited versions of the same videos the nose has disappeared.

So the plane stops inside the tower. Or 95% of it. Some parts are seen to flow out on the other side but it is unclear what. Why did they flow out, when 95% of the other parts stopped inside?

Very strange impact to say the least.

When 30 south wall perimeter pillars are cut the south wall above does not move one jota. The reason is that the vertical load in the cut pillars are re-distributed to the intact perimeter columns in the south wall via the spandrels fitted at every floor level. Thus there were plenty of redundancy in the south wall - it survived with half the columns removed.

You ask about the east core columns. NIST has announced details what east core columns were damaged after the plane stopped inside the tower. How NIST can do that is not clear. Did they have a look? The east core columns could probably only be damaged by the left wing of the plane that had sliced through the south wall undamaged.

Anyway - after another 0.05 seconds there is an explosive fire in the tower - apparently the jetfuel has stopped and caught fire. And it is first now that fire and smoke exits through the hole in the south wall (and the east wall). But apparently no pieces of wreckage of any kind exits the south wall hole. If the east core columns had resisted any impact with the wings, you would expect some wing parts to bounce out through the south wall hole at this time, but no. Or through the east wall. Or the north wall!!

So the magic wings must either have sliced through the east core columns too or stopped prior to touching the east core columns.

The whole impact is paranormal or magic. It is not real. It is a fake. Quite obvious. You do not need to be an engineer with an M.Sc. from a reputable university to conclude that. I think it was manufactured by Hollywood.

Therefore it is interesting to analyse the global collapse that ensued. It is real but what caused it? CD?

Why not? If you can fake an impact, you can also arrange a real global collapse. But you need CD for that. The fire we see would never cause global collapse as outlined in earlier messages.

I can assure you that became very depressed for a while, when I concluded above. What kind of terrorists would do all that? Not 19 arabs! They are just patsies necessary to put the blame on.
 
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Heiwa said:
Good that you agree that the floors are just hanging between the perimeter and core columns with help of their trusses and do not contribute one jota to the global strength of the tower. They are only there to provide fire division between the floors.
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The floors are only there to provide fire division between the floors. Righty ho.

Stundied.

Dave
 
Heiwa said:
Reason being of course that it is irrelevant.
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Actually, when someone addresses your points, takes the time to look up the references and provides a counter argument, it becomes relevant. It seems far more likely that you're simply uninterested in engaging in an engineering discussion.
When the east wall collapses locally at floor 82 for whatever reason,
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The reason has been pointed out to you numerous times as it is central to the NIST collapse hypothesis.
only the east wall above will fall down due to the way the tower or actually the floors were designed - as clarified in my answer to all. Global collapse will not ensue.
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Your answers contain nothing but opinion. And no one here is going to accept that in place of evidence and calculations.
 
Heiwa said:
The whole impact is paranormal or magic. It is not real. It is a fake. Quite obvious. You do not need to be an engineer with an M.Sc. from a reputable university to conclude that. I think it was manufactured by Hollywood.
Click to expand...

Now you're just being weird.
 
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