Could Communism in Russia have been successful with Christianity instead of Atheism?

[UnrepentantSinner]

Apparently our friend Justice Hugo "KKK" Black who helped give us the legal term "Separation of Church and State" thought secular humanism is a religion.

Did he do this while being advised by Leo "ACLU Lawyer" Pfeffer?

 

[Freethinker]

Maybe your research is better than the Nobel Prize selection committee. And also the government of India who gave her a state funeral. Her body was paraded through the streets of India before many thousands of people like she was some sort of a god.

From Wikis article on Mother Theresa:

1979, Mother Teresa was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, "for work undertaken in the struggle to overcome poverty and distress, which also constitute a threat to peace." She refused the conventional ceremonial banquet given to laureates, and asked that the $192,000 funds be given to the poor in India,[35] stating that earthly rewards were important only if they helped her help the world's needy. When Mother Teresa received the prize, she was asked, "What can we do to promote world peace?" Her answer was "Go home and love your family." Building upon this theme in her Nobel Lecture, she said: "Around the world, not only in the poor countries, but I found the poverty of the West so much more difficult to remove. When I pick up a person from the street, hungry, I give him a plate of rice, a piece of bread, I have satisfied. I have removed that hunger. But a person that is shut out, that feels unwanted, unloved, terrified, the person that has been thrown out from society - that poverty is so hurtable [sic] and so much, and I find that very difficult."[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa

Apparently so. Her status is simply evidence that media spin and propaganda can distort reality to the point that a truly evil woman can be considered saintly. It would serve you well to consider what 2000 years of spin could do for the reputation of a Jewish carpenter.

 

[Cleon]

Apparently our friend Justice Hugo "KKK" Black who helped give us the legal term "Separation of Church and State" thought secular humanism is a religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Ethical_Society_v._District_of_Columbia

I don't care what he thought. And your error about him "inventing" the term was already explained to you*.

No US Court has ever rules that Secular humanism is a religion. Ever.

To claim otherwise is a lie.

Deal with it.

(* And save your time; I know you're going to ask "where," and I'm telling you now that I'm not going to play along, you dishonest little weasel.)

 

[Cleon]

Hey DOC,

Any chance you'll answer this? Or are you too busy going off on a tangent about secular humanism (which apparently you know nothing about)?

Hey DOC,

Why just Christianity?

There have been faith-based communal societies in all sorts of religions. There are Jewish communes in Israel and the Occupied Territories called Kibbutzim. Lots of Hindu sects, including the Hare Krishna cult, run communal farms. You can even find some Wiccan communes if you hunt around for them. There are even Muslim communes.

So...What singles Christianity out for consideration, DOC?

 

[Cleon]

Quote from DOC
And why did the Soviets close down the churches like St. Basils if they weren't concerned about religious subject matters.





Article "St. Basil's Cathedral"

Lovely. That still doesn't explain what it has to do with the price of petrol in Petrograd.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Don't you know anything about Thomas Jefferson, Foster?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto

Atheist doctrine?

 

[Cleon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto

Atheist doctrine?

Humanism != Atheism.

So no.

 

[DOC]

Apparently our friend Justice Hugo "KKK" Black who helped give us the legal term "Separation of Church and State" thought secular humanism is a religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Ethical_Society_v._District_of_Columbia

I don't care what he thought.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say, you don't care what he thought regarding secular humanism being a religion. Because you and the ACLU surely cared what he thought regarding "Separation of Church and State" in the extremely important 1947 Everson case that gave this country the "legal term" "Separation of Church and State".

No US Court has ever rules that Secular humanism is a religion. Ever.

This is a matter of opinion. You have your opinion and the following author has his opinion.


Creation vs. Evolution: The Battle of Two Religions

Author: Curt Sewell
Subject: Creation Overviews
Date: 11/8/1999
Curt Sewell is the author of God at Ground Zero


"A large percentage of evolutionists consider themselves to be Secular Humanists, which they often consider to be a philosophy, not a formal religion. But the U.S. Supreme Court, in 1961, found that Secular Humanism is a religion. (A Humanist, Roy Torcaso, was denied a commission as a Notary Public in the State of Maryland. The State had required all public officials to affirm a belief in God. Torcaso appealed, and the Court found that Humanism is a religion, thus the State's requirement was unconstitutional as a violation of religious liberty.)

In the Seeger Supreme Court Decision in 1965 (which found that a humanistic and ethical belief, sincerely professed as a religion, shall be entitled to recognition as being religious under the Selective Service Law), Justice Hugo L. Black {who was extremely important in giving us the "legal term" Separation of Church and State} wrote (Siecus, pg.94) :

"Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others."

http://www.rae.org/bits25.htm

 

[Cleon]

This is a matter of opinion. You have your opinion and the following author has his opinion.

Wrong. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact and public record.

And I say again:

No US Court has ever ruled that Secular Humanism is a religion. Ever.

To claim otherwise is a lie.

A large percentage of evolutionists consider themselves to be Secular Humanists, which they often consider to be a philosophy, not a formal religion. But the U.S. Supreme Court, in 1961, found that Secular Humanism is a religion.

Not only are you repeating a lie, you are bold-facing it to draw attention.

"Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others."

This is called a "dicta," which is not a finding or a ruling.

I say again: No US Court has ever ruled that Secular Humanism is a religion. Ever.

To claim otherwise is a lie. Your anonymous author is lying to you.

And, now that you have been corrected, if you repeat the lie, you are lying as well.

Deal with it.

 

[DOC]

Your anonymous author is lying to you.

He is not anonymous he's Curt Sewell, author of "God at Ground Zero".

http://www.rae.org/bits25.htm

 

[Cleon]

He is not anonymous he's Curt Sewell, author of "God at Ground Zero".

Your "last edit" of your post was well after my response. Close your eyes, think really hard, and you might be able to figure out what happened.


In any event, whether he's anonymous or not is irrelevant. He's still lying to you.

 

[DOC]

To Cleon,

Is it your belief that Secular Humanism is not a religion?

 

[CFLarsen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto

Atheist doctrine?

Secular is not the same as atheist. I'm looking at orgs that specifically have promoting atheism as their goal, not orgs that simply lack religion (like convenience stores, gas stations, and the burger joint down the road.)

To answer your own question, with your own words: No.

 

[Cleon]

So is it your belief that Humanism is not a religion?

Are you still talking about Secular Humanism, or Humanism in general?

You do know they're not synonyms, don't you?

 

[Cleon]

Hey DOC,

Why just Christianity?

There have been faith-based communal societies in all sorts of religions. There are Jewish communes in Israel and the Occupied Territories called Kibbutzim. Lots of Hindu sects, including the Hare Krishna cult, run communal farms. You can even find some Wiccan communes if you hunt around for them. There are even Muslim communes.

So...What singles Christianity out for consideration, DOC?

And still no answer.

 

[Cleon]

Oh, hey DOC?

In case you're still harboring any delusions about Hugo Black's footnote, I suggest you take a look at the case Peloza v. Capistrano School District. You see, some yokel tried to make a legal claim out of the felgercarb you're pushing.

He sued the school district he worked for, claiming that by being forced to teach evolution, he was in fact being forced to teach the "religion" of secular humanism, thus violating the First Amendment. As evidence, he produced Black's footnote. This was how the Federal Court responded:

"We reject this claim because neither the Supreme Court, nor this circuit, has ever held that evolutionism or secular humanism are 'religions' for Establishment Clause purposes."

That pretty flatly lays the claim to rest, don't you think? (Oh, yeah--he appealed to the Supreme Court, who wouldn't even dignify the claim by considering it.)

Somebody else tried it in Kalka v. Hawk. Again, the court was pretty firm in its response:

"The Court's statement in Torcaso does not stand for the proposition that humanism, no matter in what form and no matter how practiced, amounts to a religion under the First Amendment. The Court offered no test for determining what system of beliefs qualified as a "religion" under the First Amendment. The most one may read into the Torcaso footnote is the idea that a particular non-theistic group calling itself the "Fellowship of Humanity" qualified as a religious organization under California law."


So DOC...do you still think that "secular humanism" was ever ruled to be a religion by a US court?

 

[kmortis]

I brought enough to share. Cleon, want some?

 

[T'ai Chi]

Early humanist manifestos refer to it as religion, a religion with secular principles.

 

[kmortis]

Early humanist manifestos refer to it as religion, a religion with secular principles.

Which manifestos? Specifically? Habeas libri.

 

[DOC]

Are you still talking about Secular Humanism, or Humanism in general?

You do know they're not synonyms, don't you?

Do you believe Humanism that does not believe in a Supreme Being or God is a religion.