Time to kick Iran

[Oliver]

Btw Oliver, just curious, do you see anything wrong in the picture I just posted of Ahmadinejad?

In direct comparison? Mhmm, not really:

Hotlinking allowed, supported and provided by Imagehoster: www.250kb.de

 

[gtc]

*lol* I consider Bild as the German equivalent of Weekly World News. News for the dumb, I apologize to it's readers.

An Australian commentator at the World Cup was caught out because the copy of Bild he was reading live on TV had a prominent picture of a naked lady on the front cover. I don't think the show was fined or prosecuted as mild nudity is not censored on Australian Free to Air TV (although the sort of nudity common in European movies is generally not allowed before around 9:30 at night).

I think that most Americans would agree that Fox News is about as representative of American news coverage as Bild is to Germany.

Anyway: The coverage generally is US-sided, Fox News is just the extreme of this behavior. But let me ask: Do you think your Media in Australia is more or less accurate than the US-Media?

If you have Pay TV in Australia (around 25% of homes do) then you can watch Fox News, Sky News, CNN, MSNBC, BBC world etc. However, only Sky News has significant coverage of Australia.

If you have Digital Pay TV or Digital Free to Air TV (probably less than a third of Australians), then you also have access to a channel called SBS news that broadcasts news services from around the world (but usually in a language other than English). Digital Pay TV also broadcasts the BBC world service radio.

Almost all Australians have access to 5 Free to Air TV channels (Australians don't pay an annual licence fee). There are three commercial stations; each station shows a couple of hours of news broadcasts a day. The news shown in the morning and evening tend to be populist (I would define populist as seeking the mass market with shorter stories rather than in depth investigations). They vary in the degree to which they will go downmarket to get ratings. The late night and Sunday morning news shows tend to look at issues in more depth.

The two government run stations are called ABC and SBS. The ABC tends to look at stories in more detail than the commercial stations with more focus on politics. Many conservative people think that the ABC is biased towards the left. I think that many of the ABC's reporters lean towards the left but I am not convinced that this is systematic bias. The ABC also has several radio stations with extensive news coverage.

SBS services the large number of Australians with non-English speaking heritage as well as indigenous Australians (the Aborigines) and other Australians with less mainstream tastes. SBS broadcasts about 1 and a half hours of news and sport a day in English and much of this news is international news. In the morning it shows several foreign language news programs. It shows the Deutsche Welle shows Das Journal (in German) and The Journal (in English) a few hours after they are created. SBS also has several radio stations which broadcast news and shows in various languages.

SBS is also famous for its European tv shows which it subtitles in English and sometimes co-produces. As an example SBS shows Inspector Rex from Austria in the original German in prime time. SBS is also famous for soccer (it is nicknamed Soccer Bloody Soccer), off beat American shows (it shows South Park and Myth Busters) and raunchy European movies (shown with subtitles most nights at 10 PM and the source of the other nickname Sex Before Sleep).

The major cities in Austalia also have a community TV channel which is suppossed to screen locally produced shows. However, my channel often fills its schedule with English language shows from DW.

Sydney and Melbourne have two local newspapers (one somewhat conservative tabloid and one somewhat liberal broadsheet). Most other cities have one local newspaper that is somewhat conservative. There are two national newspapers both conservative.

Overall, we have a smaller number of news outlets than the US or UK with a more limited number of media owners; our media also tends to be more centrist. I can't say that it is more or less biased and we via internet or pay TV we have access to most of the American news outlets.

I haven't been to New Zealand yet, but I think they have access to a similar range of media outlets as Australia (there is a fair bit of common ownership). New Zealand may have less access to foreign media as I don't think they have an equivalent of SBS.

 

[Pardalis]

In direct comparison? Mhmm, not really:

http://www.250kb.de/u/070717/j/fad47f26.jpg
Hotlinking allowed, supported and provided by Imagehoster: www.250kb.de

No, do you see anything wrong in the picture I posted?

This is no laughing matter.

 

[Schneibster]

I didn't think it was, either.

ETA: Oliver, be careful you think and observe before you answer. It may determine whether I am willing to converse with you or not; I suspect the same is true of Pardalis. Remember the mistake you made with Darth? This is another of those moments. I'm surprised, frankly, that Pardalis gave you another chance; I might not have, myself.

 

[Oliver]

An Australian commentator at the World Cup was caught out because the copy of Bild he was reading live on TV had a prominent picture of a naked lady on the front cover. I don't think the show was fined or prosecuted as mild nudity is not censored on Australian Free to Air TV (although the sort of nudity common in European movies is generally not allowed before around 9:30 at night).

I think that most Americans would agree that Fox News is about as representative of American news coverage as Bild is to Germany.

If you have Pay TV in Australia (around 25% of homes do) then you can watch Fox News, Sky News, CNN, MSNBC, BBC world etc. However, only Sky News has significant coverage of Australia.

If you have Digital Pay TV or Digital Free to Air TV (probably less than a third of Australians), then you also have access to a channel called SBS news that broadcasts news services from around the world (but usually in a language other than English). Digital Pay TV also broadcasts the BBC world service radio.

Almost all Australians have access to 5 Free to Air TV channels (Australians don't pay an annual licence fee). There are three commercial stations; each station shows a couple of hours of news broadcasts a day. The news shown in the morning and evening tend to be populist (I would define populist as seeking the mass market with shorter stories rather than in depth investigations). They vary in the degree to which they will go downmarket to get ratings. The late night and Sunday morning news shows tend to look at issues in more depth.

The two government run stations are called ABC and SBS. The ABC tends to look at stories in more detail than the commercial stations with more focus on politics. Many conservative people think that the ABC is biased towards the left. I think that many of the ABC's reporters lean towards the left but I am not convinced that this is systematic bias. The ABC also has several radio stations with extensive news coverage.

SBS services the large number of Australians with non-English speaking heritage as well as indigenous Australians (the Aborigines) and other Australians with less mainstream tastes. SBS broadcasts about 1 and a half hours of news and sport a day in English and much of this news is international news. In the morning it shows several foreign language news programs. It shows the Deutsche Welle shows Das Journal (in German) and The Journal (in English) a few hours after they are created. SBS also has several radio stations which broadcast news and shows in various languages.

SBS is also famous for its European tv shows which it subtitles in English and sometimes co-produces. As an example SBS shows Inspector Rex from Austria in the original German in prime time. SBS is also famous for soccer (it is nicknamed Soccer Bloody Soccer), off beat American shows (it shows South Park and Myth Busters) and raunchy European movies (shown with subtitles most nights at 10 PM and the source of the other nickname Sex Before Sleep).

The major cities in Austalia also have a community TV channel which is suppossed to screen locally produced shows. However, my channel often fills its schedule with English language shows from DW.

Sydney and Melbourne have two local newspapers (one somewhat conservative tabloid and one somewhat liberal broadsheet). Most other cities have one local newspaper that is somewhat conservative. There are two national newspapers both conservative.

Overall, we have a smaller number of news outlets than the US or UK with a more limited number of media owners; our media also tends to be more centrist. I can't say that it is more or less biased and we via internet or pay TV we have access to most of the American news outlets.

I haven't been to New Zealand yet, but I think they have access to a similar range of media outlets as Australia (there is a fair bit of common ownership). New Zealand may have less access to foreign media as I don't think they have an equivalent of SBS.

Your TV-System in Australia looks pretty authentic to the System we have over here. Everyone is able to get the two national stations ARD and ZDF plus a regional Channel, often also a City-Channel. Then there is "Cable Germany" providing more than 20 additional, private TV-Stations and if you have a satellite TV dish, you get hundreds of channels from all around the Globe.

The private channels also tend to show much less politics but I can't say that they're biased in their news-coverage. The national Stations are deadly serious about their coverage. It would be a scandal if someone would try to make things up. Well, that's the guarantee for non-biased coverage in the news. We also don't have this type of "Look what the Dems/Reps did"-type of coverage. I guess you also don't know this type of "Political mudslinging News" in your Media, do you?

The nude women on the first side is something like a national symbol over here. Nudity in General isn't such a big issue. You see nudes in cosmetics-, shower gel- and perfume commercials all the time. Even reports about a Sauna and showing those naked people in there isn't very controversial because it doesn't show anything sexual. That's why the American way of automatically comparing nudity with sex&sin, is a little bit strange and antiquated to me.

 

[Oliver]

No, do you see anything wrong in the picture I posted?

This is no laughing matter.

I didn't think it was, either.

ETA: Oliver, be careful you think and observe before you answer. It may determine whether I am willing to converse with you or not; I suspect the same is true of Pardalis. Remember the mistake you made with Darth? This is another of those moments. I'm surprised, frankly, that Pardalis gave you another chance; I might not have, myself.

Well, even if the similarities in both pictures are funny, I see nothing wrong in this picture. Of course Ahmadinejad is also a nut in some of his views - and he can babble everything he wants - and all day long if he has to, but my point is that he isn't dumb enough to attack Israel or the US.

The current White House is a far more dangerous threat for peace in the World - as we've seen in Iraq. So talking about Zionism is one issue - acting without caring about the rest of the world, a completely different one, isn't it?

 

[Pardalis]

OK, I'm done here.

 

[gtc]

Your TV-System in Australia looks pretty authentic to the System we have over here. Everyone is able to get the two national stations ARD and ZDF plus a regional Channel, often also a City-Channel. Then there is "Cable Germany" providing more than 20 additional, private TV-Stations and if you have a satellite TV dish, you get hundreds of channels from all around the Globe.

Many people of non-English speaking backgrounds have satelite dishes as well. I believe the range of channels is somewhat restricted in Australia due to our position on the globe.

The private channels also tend to show much less politics but I can't say that they're biased in their news-coverage. The national Stations are deadly serious about their coverage. It would be a scandal if someone would try to make things up. Well, that's the guarantee for non-biased coverage in the news. We also don't have this type of "Look what the Dems/Reps did"-type of coverage. I guess you also don't know this type of "Political mudslinging News" in your Media, do you?

There is also the bias of selective ommission. This is hard to prove for a lot of reasons. News is rarely made up in my experience of Australian news coverage (other than some of the tabloid current affairs shows which are purely entertainment driven and cases where people have been duped by internet hoaxes).

I suspect that Germany's history has something to do with why Germany's news tries to be more centrist than America (if what you say is correct). Biased news coverage was one of the techniques used by the GDR and Nazi Germany to control the people; biased or outrageous news coverage seems to be self-correcting in the US.

The nude women on the first side is something like a national symbol over here. Nudity in General isn't such a big issue. You see nudes in cosmetics-, shower gel- and perfume commercials all the time. Even reports about a Sauna and showing those naked people in there isn't very controversial because it doesn't show anything sexual. That's why the American way of automatically comparing nudity with sex&sin, is a little bit strange and antiquated to me.

Personal morality in America tends to be more conservative than in Australia which tends to be more conservative than Europe. This may have something to do with the fact that many of the people who settled America were conservative religous types. As a result I think that Americans tend to be more concerned about the sort of material that is shown on free to air tv (where anyone can watch it).

On the other hand, hard core pornography is generally illegal in Australia (although this law is widely flouted) whereas I believe it is generally legal in America. This may be due to the stronger freedom of speech protection in teh states or it may be that Americans will tolerate this sort of thing if it is only available to those who seek it out.

These are just my opinions based on my observations from afar.

 

[Oliver]

OK, I'm done here.

I knew this would be your reaction - because you're too ignorant to see a difference beween:

1. A man talking about what a knife can do to a human body.
2. A man who shows what a knife can do to a human body.

Right now, Iran is 1. and America obviously 2.

I know you don't like this fact, Pardalis - but it's the sad truth.

I doubt that Iran would attack the US or Israel without an attack on their soil - but I don't doubt that the Neocons would preemptively attack Iran without an attack coming from them. In any way: Iran is no threat for America. If the media intensely starts to propagate Iran otherwise, you will remember my opinion and maybe understand why I think the way I do.

Start to grow up and accept the way the world spins. Pouting isn't a solution for this problem.

 

[gtc]

Oliver,

Do you understand what he means by a 'World without zionism'?

Do you understand what the significance is of the fractured American flag behind his head?

I suspect that you may not have read deeply enough about his beliefs. Have you read this interview with him from 2006. It is in English, I can't find the German version but you may be able to:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,418660,00.html

You might like to also look into his support of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and various insurgent groups in Iraq.

 

[Pardalis]

1. A man talking about what a knife can do to a human body.

And a man who is actively pursuing to acquire the said knife.

2. A man who shows what a knife can do to a human body.

As far as I know, the US never called for the destruction of any nation, let alone openly called for a genocide.

Start to grow up and accept the way the world spins. Pouting isn't a solution for this problem.

You're part of the problem Ollie.

 

[Schneibster]

I'm out too. Objective criteria, Oliver. If you can't accept their implications, you got no business on a skeptics' board. Good bye.

 

[Oliver]

Many people of non-English speaking backgrounds have satelite dishes as well. I believe the range of channels is somewhat restricted in Australia due to our position on the globe.

This may be - but believe me, there's 99,9% crap on these channels anyway.

There is also the bias of selective ommission. This is hard to prove for a lot of reasons. News is rarely made up in my experience of Australian news coverage (other than some of the tabloid current affairs shows which are purely entertainment driven and cases where people have been duped by internet hoaxes).

I suspect that Germany's history has something to do with why Germany's news tries to be more centrist than America (if what you say is correct). Biased news coverage was one of the techniques used by the GDR and Nazi Germany to control the people; biased or outrageous news coverage seems to be self-correcting in the US.

Our history may also be part of the way the media does it's job in Germany. Another thing probably is the more serious doctrine of Journalism. If a Media-Outlet makes something up, the rest of the media will point it out - which has serious consequences for the image and "pocket" of the Media-Outlet. It's some kind of security mechanism to avoid biased coverage - and I wonder why this doesn't work the same way in the US.

Of course the Media has to serve it's customers, too - so they won't show things that nobody is interested in. But I don't consider this as biased. Bild is a great example for what I mean - they have a mainly proletarian Readership, so the coverage tends to be sensationalism, sports, Politics in the most simple way. But I have a hard time to believe they deliberately make things up. They know that they get bashed from all sides if they do.

Personal morality in America tends to be more conservative than in Australia which tends to be more conservative than Europe. This may have something to do with the fact that many of the people who settled America were conservative religous types. As a result I think that Americans tend to be more concerned about the sort of material that is shown on free to air tv (where anyone can watch it).

Well, America is the land of contradictions. I would love to see that they show the dead bodys in Iraq if they are involved in this war. They should see what war means - not the patriotic, bloodless Propaganda telling them that everything is fine. That isn't neither right nor democratic - it's a big lie.

Nudity is another issue. It's strange from our views but it's simply a misconception about sexuality. And basically it's comparable to some muslim states tradition of covering the women.

On the other hand, hard core pornography is generally illegal in Australia (although this law is widely flouted) whereas I believe it is generally legal in America. This may be due to the stronger freedom of speech protection in the states or it may be that Americans will tolerate this sort of thing if it is only available to those who seek it out.

These are just my opinions based on my observations from afar.

You mean there is no pornography at all in Video rental Services? This sounds like there must be a big controversy about the pornography on the Internet, am I right?

 

[Oliver]

I'm out too. Objective criteria, Oliver. If you can't accept their implications, you got no business on a skeptics' board. Good bye.

I have no Idea what happed this time. What implications?

 

[Oliver]

And a man who is actively pursuing to acquire the said knife.

As far as I know, the US never called for the destruction of any nation, let alone openly called for a genocide.

You're part of the problem Ollie.

As I said - Iran is no threat! NO MATTER WHO SAID WHAT AND WHEN. Get over it instead behaving like a little child.

And just because you don't get it - the US has thousands of these "Knifes". Israel has "Knifes", too. So what the F is your concern?

You're hopelessly biased, Pardalis. No sense for neutrality at all. And sadly enough, that's the real problem. Maybe you understand this one day, Goury.

 

[Oliver]

Oliver,

Do you understand what he means by a 'World without zionism'?

Do you understand what the significance is of the fractured American flag behind his head?

I suspect that you may not have read deeply enough about his beliefs. Have you read this interview with him from 2006. It is in English, I can't find the German version but you may be able to:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,418660,00.html

You might like to also look into his support of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and various insurgent groups in Iraq.

Well, I know his nutty opinions about holocaust and zionism. But quite frankly, I don't care about any whining on ANY side. I want to see peace down there. It could have happened a long time ago - the question is: Does Israel's and America's Governments want peace. I start to doubt about that - no matter how perfumed the "We spread Freedom, Democracy and Peace"-speeches are.

 

[blndrhed]

Aren't they playing by all the rules according to the IAEA. I haven't been following everything so much because I thought the cooler heads prevailed as far as that "We must strike Iran pronto" rhetoric has gone. I know Israel and AIPAC pushed us pretty hard to strike. Haven't we supplied Israel with enough weaponry that they can cover their own ass? If they want Iran taken out so much they should do it themselves. I'd actually like to see that happen. From what I've heard, the Iranian military are a bunch of bad ass S.O.B.s that might teach Israel a lesson or two.

 

[gtc]

You mean there is no pornography at all in Video rental Services? This sounds like there must be a big controversy about the pornography on the Internet, am I right?

Many magazines and most tv shows, movies and videogames have their content rated in Australia.

There are three levels of adult content

MA material is not suitable for children under 15 and MA movies should only be shown to children under adult supervision. Swearing, some nudity, some simulated sex and some violence is allowed to be shown under the MA rating. MA shows can be shown on TV after 9PM.

R rated shows can have more nudity, more violence and more simulated sex. R rated movies can only be shown to people over the age of 18 but are shown on Pay TV. Movies like Pulp Fiction would get an R rating in Australia. Pay TV is allowed to show R rated shows any time of the day. R rated porn movies are allowed to be sold or rented in Australia. Unfortunately there is no R rating for videogames so some videogames are banned in Australia for being too violent. I believe something similar happened in Germany recently.

X rated movies contain realistic sex and are not allowed to be sold outside of Canberra (where they can also be shown on pay TV apparently). Until recently they were legal in the Northern Territory. They are openly sold in many adult shops in Australia and widely available by mail order (I believe). Usually the police will only prosecute the sale of these items as part of an investigation into other crimes (like drugs or child pornography).

Sexual violence is also illegal.

The government has made internet porn illegal for Australian websites (as far as I know) and prosecutes child pornography but I don't think they have the ability or desire to do anything about internet porn on overseas websites.

Public nudity is not as common on Australian beaches as on European beaches and you might get fined for taking your pants off at a popular beach but there are many private beaches where nudity is tolerated.

I doubt there are many Australian, German or American teenagers with pay tv or internet who would have trouble finding porn

 

[Oliver]

Aren't they playing by all the rules according to the IAEA. I haven't been following everything so much because I thought the cooler heads prevailed as far as that "We must strike Iran pronto" rhetoric has gone. I know Israel and AIPAC pushed us pretty hard to strike. Haven't we supplied Israel with enough weaponry that they can cover their own ass? If they want Iran taken out so much they should do it themselves. I'd actually like to see that happen. From what I've heard, the Iranian military are a bunch of bad ass S.O.B.s that might teach Israel a lesson or two.

The last information I have is from Wikipedia:

On December 23, 2006, the UN Security Council passed a resolution[9] requiring Iran to suspend its uranium enrichment activities and requiring all UN members and the IAEA to impose certain sanctions on Iran. In January 2007 IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei proposed a "time out", that Iran suspend enrichment related activity and the United Nations Security Council suspend sanctions simultaneously, with the aim to revive stalled negotiations. At its March 2007 meeting, the Board of Governors agreed to curtail Technical Cooperation activities with Iran, as recommended in the Director General's February 9 report.[10]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAEA#IAEA_and_Iran

Basically you're right. Israels military power is strong enough to bomb every attacker back to Stonehenge. I have no Idea why America has to play the Nanny for Israel. I would prefer they take a neutral position and put pressure on both sides to establish peace. That should have happened a long time ago.

 

[blndrhed]

Wow, the world without Zionism. Could we ever be so lucky. So that would mean no Jewish state right. What do you think it means? Because all it means to me is that Israel would embrace multiculturalism. You're not trying to imply that
Ahmadinejad wants to begin some kind of Jewish eradication programs are you?