Steorn's actions make business sense

Relating all this back to the OP......

Vanillacone - I like your anecdotal evidence. This is exactly how the guys with the bright ideas proceed when they've only got a bright idea, or like in Steorn's case (and may of the internet startups in the 90s), they had something that kinda/sorta worked in a limited or controlled environment, and postulated that it could work everywhere, all the time.

The problem with this as regards Steorn, though, is that while following those axioms, they obviously had nothing more than the idea or the one-off example. Instead of the normal boardroom investment route, they decided to go through some rather strange moves, mostly geared to getting attention, but I think in the end indicative that they thought they had something, but didn't know just what that something was. Why else the Guradian advert, the open forum, the developers forum, the scientific panel, the woeful release of information*.

The NDAs are understandable in any such venture. But opening up a sub-panel which they referred to as their "Developers Forum", was ridiculous. This was bright lads and lasses from their forum. Sign the NDA and show some sort of knowledge or expertise, and you're in.

In hindsight, they were hoping that someone in one or another of these groups would come up with that "Eureka!" moment that would explain their original anomaly and allow them to replicate it.

All of this adds up to nearly the exact opposite of the theme of the OP in this thread. This was a horrible muddle in terms of business. (They haven't been taking new investors, so the idea that they're doing it to kite their stock price doesn't work, either.)

*If you look at their very slick website, check the press information, press releases, and Steorn In The News sections. There were many more announcements since last August - they made them in their Forum, though. They had dozens, if not hundreds of news articles and mentions on television and had whole sub-sections of websites and blogs dedicated to them. Yet none of the news clipping are after Aug/Sep of last year. They've published nothing in the way of specs, although they promised to. Instead, they've opted for stupid video clips and museum shows.

All in all, as I said, as "good business", this has been a disaster.
 
All in all, as I said, as "good business", this has been a disaster.

One more memory came flowing back just now, nothing but one more drop of anecdote in the sea of scientific information proving Steorn's claims (I kid.), but I remember the worst day of my startup experience was the day our company's Web site went live, and a group of posters on SlashDot absolutely ripped to shreds all of the claims it made about our product. (Ours was one of many competing technologies at the time intended to increase the efficiency of IP networks.) I had written all of those claims based on many interviews with our company leaders and was quite personally hurt by the shredding. To make matters worse, our CEO went on the defensive and posted replies on SlashDot blaming "the marketing department" for failing to properly convey certain aspects of the technology, even though (he didn't say this part, of course) he had personally read and approved all of it.

The point of this story is that the skeptics on SlashDot who had a basic grasp of such technologies immediately recognized the problems with our product. Everything they said turned out to be true. Whenever a bold and legitimate claim of breakthrough technology is made, the developers of that technology must make certain to release enough technical information about the product to satisfy the potential skeptics, or the claims will be dismissed immediately as hype. Any argument that releasing such information would be tantamount to giving away the farm simply flies in the face of history and common sense. On the contrary, failure to adequately explain legitimate new technology to your peers and potential customer is a grave mistake that can have irreversible effects. The only real reason to hold back is if revealing more will expose the product's fatal flaw, as was unfortunately the case with my startup.

Of course, that's just the opinion of one former tech marketing dude.
 
Why else the Guradian advert...


The advert was in the Economist. According to older versions of the Wikipedia article about Steorn, there was until 25th August last year a link on Steorn's "press coverage" page to a story in the Guardian on 1st April 2006. The story doesn't exist, and Steorn said the link was a placeholder left by their website designer.
 
The advert was in the Economist. According to older versions of the Wikipedia article about Steorn, there was until 25th August last year a link on Steorn's "press coverage" page to a story in the Guardian on 1st April 2006. The story doesn't exist, and Steorn said the link was a placeholder left by their website designer.

Guradian in Cantonese means Economist.:spjimlad: :spjimlad:

Not really... a typo and an error in the same line....
 
The advert was in the Economist. According to older versions of the Wikipedia article about Steorn, there was until 25th August last year a link on Steorn's "press coverage" page to a story in the Guardian on 1st April 2006. The story doesn't exist, and Steorn said the link was a placeholder left by their website designer.

April 1st, eh?
 
Probably? Rather a strange statement.


How come you haven't?

http://www.depletedcranium.com/

I think their website is devoid of meaningful content, is poorly managed, and is essentially part of whatever delusion or scam they're all about. But physically, it's a great site. I've seen a couple of others recently for commercial entities that flow much the same way. It's a clean and good site.

It's got the whole "Glassy OSX" thing going on, which people seem to universally think is the best way for things to look. I'm trying to be a bit more original, and also I don't have the time to put all the graphics stuff onto my site. I'd also like to be a bit more original

I'm using the Wordpress templates, which I'm honestly just sorta learning how to use that format and customize it.

I was thinking of revamping it with a bit more of the dull brushed-metal look, and I may soon, but it's a lot of work for a site like that. I think their site was created, in a large part, from preexisting tempates and graphic libraries.
 
The NDAs are understandable in any such venture. But opening up a sub-panel which they referred to as their "Developers Forum", was ridiculous. This was bright lads and lasses from their forum. Sign the NDA and show some sort of knowledge or expertise, and you're in.

On the subject of NDAs, I've been told before that they're worth approximately as much as the paper they're written on. Is this actually true? Presumably if you are actually an employee it's all part of your contract, but what about random people on their forum? Could they actually do anything legally if someone just decided to tell all?
 
I have the feeling these guys are not deliberate scamsters, but are just hopelessly self-deluded and following unthinkingly in the footsteps of other people who pulled the same stunts (although, those others were probably far more consciously fleecing the people who stumped cash as an "investment" in whatever technology they were hawking).

It might explain why they're scorning conventional scientific channels and conducting science-by-press-release -- they're convinced they're onto something which needs to be shown to "the public" as soon as possible, and validated in the court of public opinion. The problem is that they do not seem to understand they are clattering down a road with ruts already well-worn in it by so many other people who didn't understand how energy operates. (And at the end of that road, a brick wall, which they're bound to augur into before too much longer.)

I'm glad the majority of the attention they have been getting has been profoundly skeptical.
 
I still say you could make a "free energy" "perpetual motion machine" - or something which would be effectively the same, using an RTG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator).. and if you compensated for the energy reduction over time (ie had a governor to keep a motor running at the same rate, even as voltage drops, by starting out with more of the radioisotope than needed).

If you used something like plutonium-238 (halflife=86.41), you could create a device which would be perpetually in motion and would not show any detectable slowing or reduction in energy output in even the longest human lifetime.

(And I really don't care what happens after I am dead)
 
Ya know -

Having started this thread before the failed demonstration, I must say I've changed my mind about Steorn's business acumen.

- Mudd
 
Ya know -

Having started this thread before the failed demonstration, I must say I've changed my mind about Steorn's business acumen.

- Mudd

Mudd,

Well, then a hearty welcome (which I think some of us neglected)! Nothing like having evidence change your opinion. And apologies for whichever of us suggested you were spamming for Steorn - I didn't see that at all, but we tend to get a little suspicious sometimes.

I have to admit that while I was expecting some sort of meltdown for them, I was expecting it "eventually". This week's adventures are just puzzling. And the culmination of them just throwing in the towel and tacitly admitting defeat by the fact that even with 6 days left to the gallery and vid streaming time.... well that's just mind-boggling. I know there are still some believers over on the Steorn Forum, but I can't fathom what keeps them going. I guess that's what people refer to as blind faith.
 
That would have been me. Mudd's third post does kind of suggest I was wrong, so apologies from me.

Sorry, JQH - didn't mean to single you out. And, as I said, we're a naturally suspicious lot in Skepticsville! (I've been hanging out on Steorn, mostly lurking, since last August, so I was pretty sure he wasn't a shill for them - their peanut gallery aren't exactly subtle.)
 
Foolmewunz -

I've also been dropping in occasionally on Steorn's forum since last August, which is where I first read about this forum.

Their actions beg the question, "What, exactly, are they up to?"

If it's money, there are a lot easier ways to make it than spend a good chunk of change on public embarassment that's guaranteed to drive away investors...

Anyone care to speculate?

- Mudd

p.s. - It's got to be money, doesn't it?
 
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Foolmewunz -

I've also been dropping in occasionally on Steorn's forum since last August, which is where I first read about this forum.

Their actions beg the question, "What, exactly, are they up to?"

If it's money, there are a lot easier ways to make it than spend a good chunk of change on public embarassment that's guaranteed to drive away investors...

Anyone care to speculate?

- Mudd

p.s. - It's got to be money, doesn't it?

They could be deluded. Or maybe some person within Steorn is scamming the others.

The BBC sent in Professor Sir Eric Ash (CBE, etc. etc. and a recognised authority on electrical engineering) to talk to Sean McCarthy. His conclusion:

"I believe that Mr McCarthy is truly convinced of the validity of his invention. It is, in my view, a case of prolonged self deception."

Read the BBC article here.
 
Let's speculate....
The thing to do would be to hire scientists to figure out the underlying principles so as to facilitate the development of more advanced versions of the technology.

... hence, the placement of the advertisement in the Economist last August for scientists to figure out the principles behind their admittedly-accidental discovery.
I understood that the juries job was to confirm that the device worked not to work out how it worked.
 
They haven’t started. (I guess)

The contract between the jury and Steorn (on the Steorn site) talks about a 90 day process from start to finish.

Given that Steorn expects they jury to report at the end of the year they are not due to start until October.

Probably correct. If the comments of those who signed the NDA to get into the Developers Forum are to be believed, the scientists haven't gotten their hands on a working model, yet. One commented that one of the jurists took the tech specs they were given and created "something" that operated for seven hours in his garage in Florida.

All of this is hearsay, of course, because Steorn's strange behaviour has mandated no releases of any progress reports or even status elements about what the jury is doing. Steorn neither confirm nor deny the above.
 
I REALLY hope I don't catch too much flack for this, but I have done some research and made some diagrams and collected information which pretty much explains how "Orbo" was supposed to work and how it could have fooled those at Steorn and such.

I can't really post it all here easily, so I'm offering the following link: http://depletedcranium.com/?p=54


I'm not trying to spam anything. It seems like it should be relevant and worth reading.
 

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