krazyKemist
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
- Messages
- 430
This is boring.
Where's Ullman ? I want to discuss "epitaxy" and thermodynamics.
the Kemist
Where's Ullman ? I want to discuss "epitaxy" and thermodynamics.
the Kemist
He's back! Yay! We can start playing again!
OK, first question. What the hell did that post have to do with anything? Seriously, no-one here has mentioned a book over 100 years old as proof of anything. I take it this means you have nothing to say about all the criticism actually presented in this thread? Kind of sad that the best you can do is attack something written by a dead guy over a century ago really.
...could you see your way to giving us enough information about your sources for us to consult them? Giving only the author's surname and year of publication isn't really enough.Speaking of intellectual dishonesty...
He's back! Yay! We can start playing again!
OK, first question. What the hell did that post have to do with anything? Seriously, no-one here has mentioned a book over 100 years old as proof of anything. I take it this means you have nothing to say about all the criticism actually presented in this thread? Kind of sad that the best you can do is attack something written by a dead guy over a century ago really.
Dr. Holmes’ primary attack was on the extremely small doses that are used in homeopathic medicine. However, Dr. Holmes had seemingly never read a single book on homeopathy or had any meaningful dialogue with a homeopath because he committed a classic error of calculation. When a homeopathic pharmacy makes a medicine, they take one part of the original substance and dilute it in nine or 99 parts water (considered a 1:10 or 1:100 dilution); the glass bottle is then vigorously shaken approximately 40 times, and then, the medicinal solution is again diluted 1:10 or 1:100. Ultimately, to make a homeopathic medicine to the 30X or 30C (“X” is a Roman numeral for 10, and “C” means 100; the letter next to the number refers to the type of dilution), the total amount of water needed is 30 test tubes of water (considerably less than a simple gallon of water).
However, Dr. Holmes got his calculations confused, and he incorrectly assumed that the homeopathic manufacturer had to have 10 times or 100 times more water than in the previous dilution. Dr. Holmes estimated that the 9th dilution would require ten billion gallons of water and the 17th dilution required a quantity equal to 10,000 Adriatic seas. Dr. Holmes could have easily corrected his error if he had simply gone into one homeopathic pharmacy or had a simple short conversation with a homeopath. Sadly and strangely, Dr. Holmes and other conventional doctors of that age prided themselves on never talking with a homeopath. What is even more ironic is that Dr. Holmes arranged for the reprinting of this article in various books from 1842 to 1891 without changing a single word, despite this and numerous other errors of fact in his work.
My subject was "intellectual dishonesty," and Holmes had in the 19th century, and this list is full of it today.
But heck, prove me wrong. Show some honesty. Acknowledge results from high quality clinical and basic science research whether it has a positive or negative outcome for homeopathy.
Acknowledge that many principles of homeopathy have real merit.
Acknowledge the several thousand studies by non-homeopaths test hormesis and other extremely low dose phenemona (at doses that are EXTREMELY commonly sold in health food stores and pharmacies today).
And stop the total BS about the "high price" of homeopathic medicines (the vast majority are under $10!) or the "huge profits" that the homeopathic drug companies make (the total sales--not just profit--of the individual companies are LESS than the advertising budget of a single popular conventional drug).
In other words, GET REAL (this may be tough for some of you).
And yes...the info on Dr. Holmes is a part of the forthcoming book, and the references will be provided there.
First, lets get this straight: nobody else has talked about Holmes. You're just trying to use him as a straw man. So there is no need for me or anyone else to defend all that Holmes wrote: for all I know he may have said all sorts of silly things.
And stop the total BS about the "high price" of homeopathic medicines (the vast majority are under $10!)...
... full of it ... does that include your post then?My subject was "intellectual dishonesty," and Holmes had in the 19th century, and this list is full of it today.
I'd rather you proved yourself right ...But heck, prove me wrong.
I will happily acknowledge such results, if and when they are presented. Why will you not critically examine your positive results, why do you dismiss negative results? Are you being a hypocrite here?Show some honesty. Acknowledge results from high quality clinical and basic science research whether it has a positive or negative outcome for homeopathy. Acknowledge that many principles of homeopathy have real merit.
Low does - or no dose? Go look up your essential principles again.Acknowledge the several thousand studies by non-homeopaths test hormesis and other extremely low dose phenemona (at doses that are EXTREMELY commonly sold in health food stores and pharmacies today).
A scam is a scam - pure and simple. There is no such thing as a fair price for a scam. As such - homoeopathy is always over-priced. This cost also includes the uncounted people who do not get proper treatment when necessary because they followed the wishful thinking of a homoeopath. That is an incredibily high price in my opinion.And stop the total BS about the "high price" of homeopathic medicines (the vast majority are under $10!) or the "huge profits" that the homeopathic drug companies make (the total sales--not just profit--of the individual companies are LESS than the advertising budget of a single popular conventional drug).
Not constructive - but that's not why you are here ...In other words, GET REAL (this may be tough for some of you).
So what is the problem with giving us a sneak preview of a few lines of references?And yes...the info on Dr. Holmes is a part of the forthcoming book, and the references will be provided there.
You can do the calculation yourself: $10.00/0 = ...How much is that per ounce of active component?
Someone referred to Orac's critique of the CHEST study, and yet, this critique was so weak that it was surprising that CHEST chose to publish his "letter to the editor." However, because the authors replied to him (and blew his weak critique out of the water), I was pleased to see this in print.
The "letter to the editor" was from David Colquhoun.Someone referred to Orac's critique of the CHEST study, and yet, this critique was so weak that it was surprising that CHEST chose to publish his "letter to the editor." However, because the authors replied to him (and blew his weak critique out of the water [in your imagination, JJM]), I was pleased to see this in print. And yet, no one here acknowledged the incredible weakness of Orac's (et al's) analysis.
References please. And links if it is availabe on the web, of course.
And an explanation of how the critique was "blown out of the water".
Nullius in verba.
And stop the total BS about the "high price" of homeopathic medicines (the vast majority are under $10!) or the "huge profits" that the homeopathic drug companies make (the total sales--not just profit--of the individual companies are LESS than the advertising budget of a single popular conventional drug).
4. Can you tell us whether either of these machines works?
http://www.bio-resonance.com/elybra.htm
http://www.remedydevices.com/voice.htm
Bear in mind that the users of these machines rely on exactly the same anecdotal experience and fallacious post hoc reasoning that every other homeopath does. Are the homeopaths who use these machines right or wrong in thinking they work?
It's a very simple question and capable of a single-word answer.
I'll give you a new question just so you can show how well you understand the interpretation of clinical trial data;
9. I set a p-value for significance of 0.05 and run 100 trials. In no trial is the test substance distinguishable from the control. How many trials can I expect to show an apparent "effect" from my test substance?