Pope: Other denominations are not true churches

[Katana]

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

...

In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II’s ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been “erroneous or ambiguous” and had prompted confusion and doubt.

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, “Dominus Iesus,” which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

...

“Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church,” the document said. The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.

...

The document said Orthodox churches were indeed “churches” because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed “many elements of sanctification and of truth.” But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a “wound” that harmed them, it said.

“This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an ‘internal constitutive principle’ of the very existence of a particular church,” the commentary said.

Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

“However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith,” the commentary said.

Link

And the Pope Benedict hit parade just keeps on marching...

 

[triadboy]

Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church

If a few illiterate fishermen can be called a church, then I'm moving to Alabama to become a Pope. (Sorry DR )

 

[Flo]

"Vaticans ecumenical intent" has always consisted in having all other churches, ecclesial communities, and religions rejoin catholicism.

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, “Dominus Iesus,” which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

Pretty ironic given the number of such denominations who consider that the catholics are no true christians (and in some cases that the pope is the antichrist).

Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

or more exactly that he is committed to seeing everybody becoming good little catholics ...

 

[Darth Rotor]

If a few illiterate fishermen can be called a church, then I'm moving to Alabama to become a Pope. (Sorry DR )

I am in Texas. Our fishermen read just fine down here, though quite a few have Viet Namese accents. Unless those Alabamese fishermen speak Latin, or Italian, "papa" (father) and thus "pope" will hardly be your fit title.

Reverend Triadboy does have a nice ring to it, one must admit. Get the business cards made now!

On the other hand, not being a Papist, all I can say is that until the Pope can sing Sweet Home Alabama in full Southern voice, (OK, I'll accept Bavarian, it's Southern Germany) and until the Papacy reduces the prices of "True Church/Christian" kilts, I'm not buying what he's selling.

No true Christian indeed! Tell it to the Syriac Church, your assholiness!

By reviving the scrap with the Patriarch of the Greek Church, Ratzinger shows churlishness, but perhaps his native German authoritarinism is emerging as he ages, and his inhibitions erode.

Bene dictum
Uber alles
Uber alles
In die Kirche!

Yes, I know, I forgot the umlauts, sue me.

DR

 

[Katana]

From another story:

The Vatican has set itself on a collision course with other Christian faiths, reaffirming the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church in a corrective document designed to clear up recent "erroneous" doctrine.

The document's central claim that the Catholic Church is "the one true Church of Christ" is likely to revive a debate that has dogged the Vatican's dealings with other Christian faiths for decades.

The 16-page document, prepared by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict used to head, describes Christian Orthodox churches as true churches but says they suffer from a "wound" because they do not recognise the primacy of the Pope.

But it says the "wound is still more profound" in the Protestant denominations, a view likely to further complicate relations with Protestants.

"Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress... it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of 'Church' could possibly be attributed to them," it said.

 

[ceo_esq]

The headline might as well read "Pope Still Catholic!" Is there anything in that document that the Catholic Church hasn't basically believed for a very long time?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Wait, the Pope is an arrogant moron who believes he heads the only true religion on the entire planet, and he looks down on all other Christian denominations as inherently inferior?

What exactly is the news here?

 

[ChristineR]

Lots of churches claim apostolic succession. Say the "real" pope sanctifies 100 bishops. All of them can now pass the succession on. If one of them converts to Lutheranism, all new Lutheran bishops can receive succession from him.

The common idea that it means an undisputed and uninterrupted succession of single Popes is a standard that even the Catholics don't meet.

 

[chocolatepossum]

I can't say I find his pronouncements particularly surprising or appalling. Believing Catholicism is the only true path to God is no more silly than believing christianity is, or monotheistic faiths are, or religion is... Given what he believes it seems the decent thing to do to let everyone else know they're heading for a rather large bit of damnation if they don't watch out

 

[JJM 777]

The pope is hugging all religions, they have been arranging inter-faith religious ceremonies for decades already, with clergymen from all major world religions presented. Buddhism, Hinduism...

It is self-evident that he wants to rule the whole religious world.

He talks differently to non-Christian religions though. I guess there is a political reason for everything here.

 

[Foster Zygote]

On the other hand, not being a Papist, all I can say is that until the Pope can sing Sweet Home Alabama in full Southern voice, (OK, I'll accept Bavarian, it's Southern Germany) and until the Papacy reduces the prices of "True Church/Christian" kilts, I'm not buying what he's selling.

...

 

[tsg]

"Guy in funny hat says his god is better than your god. In other news, grass is still green, bears poop in the woods, and the pope is still, well, you know. And now to Murray with sports..."

 

[brodski]

Wait, the Pope is an arrogant moron who believes he heads the only true religion on the entire planet, and he looks down on all other Christian denominations as inherently inferior?

What exactly is the news here?

I think the news is that Katana found a topic which you and CEO-Esq agree on, even more amazing, it was a religious topic!.

It’s a sign of the end times! Run!

 

[Darth Rotor]

..

You will note that he isn't wearing a kilt, so he can't be from The True Church.

He'd have to be Scottish, rite?

In any case, he does not grasp the true power of the Dark Side of the Farce.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

I think the news is that Katana found a topic which you and CEO-Esq agree on, even more amazing, it was a religious topic!. It’s a sign of the end times! Run!

*Finds LP*

*Puts on turntable*

*Listens to Blondie singing Rapture*

*Smokes pipe*

*Does not eat a guitar*

DR

 

[Darat]

I'd still have money on Ian Paisley winning an interdenominational shout out!

 

[Anacoluthon64]

Hold on people, I'm still trying to come to terms with "Shveet Heil Allepemma, vere ze skice aah so ploo …"

'Luthon64

 

[Tumblehome]

I love the twisted and convoluted reasoning used to arrive at whatever position desired by the pope:

the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II’s ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been “erroneous or ambiguous” and had prompted confusion and doubt.

it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession

they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a “wound” that harmed them, it said.

“This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an ‘internal constitutive principle’ of the very existence of a particular church,” the commentary said.

if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith

It isn't a case of moving the goal posts; there aren't any goal posts.

It reminds me of the game being played at this very moment in the Atheists/Free Ride thread.

Mornington Catholicism, anyone?

 

[Anacoluthon64]

It isn't a case of moving the goal posts; there aren't any goal posts.

Yes, the reasoning does seem a bit off-the-top-of-your-mitre and strictly seat-of-the-lederhosen.

'Luthon64

 

[jimlintott]

Are there any churches who claim they are not number one?

"We don't have the Pope but we pray harder!"