Bush to commute Libby prison sentence

Texas said:
He "nailed" him in a perjury trap. Fitzgerald was tasked to prosecute the leaker of Plames identity under the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
He knew before he even questioned Libby that it was Richard Armitage that had leaked her name. He also knew that the law in question had not been violated that is why he didn't indict Armitage. He did know that he needed something to show for his effort and he got it.
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Tex, perjury is a crime that completely undermines our legal system. Sorry, I don't take this as lightly as you do.

Scooter is not entitled to lie, and damnit, blowing CIA operatives covers gets people killed. I am old enough to recall Agee.

I am also pissed that John Deutsch isn't behind bars.

A bunch of mutually cornholing, incestuous ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ infest Washington, party affiliation being rendered irrelevant.

Scooter and Mark Rich, who Libby helped, both pardoned, both slimy crooks.

The rot is to the core.

DR
 
President Bush said:
Absolutely true. Impeachment would infringe upon my Article 2 Section 2 powers as Commander in Chief.
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More the fool you. Impeachment, an administrative procedure, does nothing to impede the Executive powers in Article 2, Section 2, but a conviction renders them irrelevant.

Unless you know what you are talking about, how about you STFU?

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
Tex, perjury is a crime that completely undermines our legal system. Sorry, I don't take this as lightly as you do.

Scooter is not entitled to lie, and damnit, blowing CIA operatives covers gets people killed. I am old enough to recall Agee.

I am also pissed that John Deutsch isn't behind bars.

A bunch of mutually cornholing, incestuous ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ infest Washington, party affiliation being rendered irrelevant.

Scooter and Mark Rich, who Libby helped, both pardoned, both slimy crooks.

The rot is to the core.

DR
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There is great controversy about the covert status of Plame. She was very open about her job and it was well known that she worked for the CIA. Libby was NOT the leaker, it was Richard Armitage. He was not charged with the crime, no one was. The investigation should have ended when Fitzgerald found out who the leaker was, that the leak did not violate the statute that he was operating under and despite that knowledge continued. I don't like Libby. He strikes me as a slimy character but I also don't like prosecutors that create perjury traps. Ken Starr did that to Clinton and Fitz did it to Libby.
As to the perjury, it was based on Libby's word against Russerts word and I gotta tell ya Russert is not my idea of a tower of truth either.
 
Only the timing surprises - guess shrub thinks we'll forget by the elections. Not surprising though, one crook pardons another.
 
Tex, perjury is a crime that completely undermines our legal system. Sorry, I don't take this as lightly as you do.

Scooter is not entitled to lie, and damnit, blowing CIA operatives covers gets people killed. I am old enough to recall Agee.
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He didn`t blow a CIA cover...Armitage and Novack did...and he didn`t lie it was his word against others. What he should have done is said he couldn`t clearly recall like most lawyers and politicians do when on trial...it was a perjury TRAP from the gitgo.
 
Tricky said:
No, not really. No Democrat has seriously suggested impeachment, and Pelosi has said it's not on the table. Sure, they're keeping the pressure on, but mostly they're simply giving the Repubs enough rope. Frankly, one problem the Dems have is that they are not willing to play hardball the way the Reps are.

For example, when Bill was president, Hillary was vilified. I've never seen where any Democrat has ever said anything really bad about Laura.
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Well unless you don't call her being accused of drunkenly killing her boyfriend when she was 17 or being a drugged out Stepford wife. I guess she hasn't been vilified. I don't really know what rope they are giving the Republicans though. It appears to me that the Dem Leadership is too busy fending off the attacks from its own left base.
I do however believe the Dems are acting no different than the Gingrich brigade during the Clinton administration. Clinton was actually a pretty good president and he surly was entertaining. The Republicans did what the Dems are about to do here, they let their irrational hatred of Clinton drive them to self-destruction.
 
Comrade Ogilvy said:
He didn`t blow a CIA cover...Armitage and Novack did...and he didn`t lie it was his word against others. What he should have done is said he couldn`t clearly recall like most lawyers and politicians do when on trial...it was a perjury TRAP from the gitgo.
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You can't be caught in a perjury trap if YOU DON'T LIE UNDER OATH.

I expect more from the people in the Executive Branch, having been in the pointy end of it for some years, and it disgusts me that you apparently don't.

DR
 
fuelair said:
Only the timing surprises - guess shrub thinks we'll forget by the elections. Not surprising though, one crook pardons another.
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You keep thinking Bush cares. He doesn't. He is a different animal. He is NOT a politician, he hates politics.
 
Darth Rotor said:
You can't be caught in a perjury trap if YOU DON'T LIE UNDER OATH.

I expect more from the people in the Executive Branch, having been in the pointy end of it for some years, and it disgusts me that you apparently don't.

DR
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One mans word against another is not exactly lying...did they have hard evidence that Libby lied (e-mails..recordings)?
 
Darth Rotor said:
You can't be caught in a perjury trap if YOU DON'T LIE UNDER OATH.

I expect more from the people in the Executive Branch, having been in the pointy end of it for some years, and it disgusts me that you apparently don't.

DR
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Darth I don't believe Bush would have done this had Fitzgerald had agreed to allow for bail pending appeal. That is not an unreasonable stance for a perjury conviction. If Bush wanted thumb his nose at justice he would simply have pardoned Libby and be done with it. He is going to take the same amount of heat anyway.
 
Texas said:
Well unless you don't call her being accused of drunkenly killing her boyfriend when she was 17 or being a drugged out Stepford wife. I guess she hasn't been vilified.
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The only place I have seen those things is on extreme left-wing sites. I've never seen a headline in a mainstream newspaper where a Democrat was criticizing her, as opposed to what we saw when Hillary tried to help write a health care plan. No, you simply cannot support any kind of case that their treatment has been equal.

Texas said:
don't really know what rope they are giving the Republicans though. It appears to me that the Dem Leadership is too busy fending off the attacks from its own left base.
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Yep. Not liberal enough for the far left. Of course, the Reps have a similar problem with their right base. Must be election season.

Texas said:
I do however believe the Dems are acting no different than the Gingrich brigade during the Clinton administration. Clinton was actually a pretty good president and he surly was entertaining. The Republicans did what the Dems are about to do here, they let their irrational hatred of Clinton drive them to self-destruction.
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I think the Dems learned from that. Sure, approval of Congress is low (it is almost always lower than that of the president because most of them are bad guys from other states) but I don't see anything close to the level of vitriol that Gingrich and friends emitted. Bush's biggest problem is Bush, not the Dems.

Actually, though, Bush tried to borrow a page from Clinton by making his vetos look like Congress simply wouldn't compromise. Of course, he couldn't sell it like Slick Willie.
 
Texas said:
He is the lousiest politician I have ever known and I admire that.
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Texas said:
He is a different animal. He is NOT a politician, he hates politics.
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Texas, these quotes display a very unusual stance. The Presidency is a political office and the better the occupant is as a politician, the better job he will do.

Politics is a horsetrading, negotiating, back-scratching, dirty business. You may not like it - I certainly don't - but there it is. To ignore that reality is to totally misunderstand the Presidency, a seat in Congress and all the way down to dogcatcher.

So to approve of Bush because he is not a politician is to approve of him because he is incompetent at his job. I just don't understand that.

For example, Ron Paul, Mike Gravel and Ralph Nadar (especially) (did I cover the political spectrum well enough? :) ) would be horrible presidents because they would not be good at the art of compromise. When I think of great politicians I think of Tip O'Neil or Lyndon Johnson (ONLY during his Senate years). They got things done.

I thnk one of the reasons the right hates Bill Clinton so much is that he was a masterful politician. The best example of this is his taking the balanced budget goal away from Newt, making it his own, and then doing it. Politics gold.

You may not like politics but to admire a politician for not being a...well....politician seems incredibly naive to me.
 
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Tricky said:
The only place I have seen those things is on extreme left-wing sites. I've never seen a headline in a mainstream newspaper where a Democrat was criticizing her, as opposed to what we saw when Hillary tried to help write a health care plan. No, you simply cannot support any kind of case that their treatment has been equal.


Yep. Not liberal enough for the far left. Of course, the Reps have a similar problem with their right base. Must be election season.


I think the Dems learned from that. Sure, approval of Congress is low (it is almost always lower than that of the president because most of them are bad guys from other states) but I don't see anything close to the level of vitriol that Gingrich and friends emitted. Bush's biggest problem is Bush, not the Dems.

Actually, though, Bush tried to borrow a page from Clinton by making his vetos look like Congress simply wouldn't compromise. Of course, he couldn't sell it like Slick Willie.
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I think you are making this more complicated than it is. Bush is comfortable in his own skin. If he feels he is right he is going to do it. He cares nothing about approval. If he did he could at least have his base approval. He truly believes in immigration reform, he truly believes in social security reform he truly believes in what we are trying to do in Iraq. WJC is a once in a century political prodigy. He had it all including a politicians ability to change his positions on a dime or poll. Witness his "big government is dead" speech following the Gingrich "revolution". Like him or hate him, if Bush says he has decided to do something he is going to do it or go down fighting for it. Don't worry, in 567 days there will be another politician in the Whitehouse and all will be well with the world.:)
 
Texas, you and I are apparently worlds apart on ideology- but very close together in our estimation of the situation. People, listen: Shrub is NOT a politician. And Scooter was not PARDONED, he had his jail time COMMUTED. Think about the implications of those two statements. And remember that no matter how much is made of how dumb Shrub is, no question, he's pretty smart. This was a blow whose power will not be felt for a while until everyone figures it out. It may be difficult to counter.
 
SezMe said:
Texas, these quotes display a very unusual stance. The Presidency is a political office and the better the occupant is as a politician, the better job he will do.

Politics is a horsetrading, negotiating, back-scratching, dirty business. You may not like it - I certainly don't - but there it is. To ignore that reality is to totally misunderstand the Presidency, a seat in Congress and all the way down to dogcatcher.

So to approve of Bush because he is not a politician is to approve of him because he is incompetent at his job. I just don't understand that.

For example, Ron Paul, Mike Gravel and Ralph Nadar (especially) (did I cover the political spectrum well enough? :) ) would be horrible presidents because they would not be good at the art of compromise. When I think of great politicians I think of Tip O'Neil or Lyndon Johnson (ONLY during his Senate years). They got things done.

You may not like politics but to admire a politician for not being a...well....politician seems incredibly naive to me.
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I detest politicians. I admire a man that stands by what he believes is right especially when public opinion turns against him. It is EASY to be popular it is not so easy to be principled. I don't agree with everything he has done but I also can see his motivation for doing them. I cringe when he speaks but I look at actions more that how glib a person is. GW did not want to be president. The GOP drafted him in 1999. Jeb was thought to be the next Bush in the Whitehouse. I believe if Bush is impeached and removed he will head back to Crawford with nary a regret.

The democrats had better be very careful the next year and a half. If they somehow force a withdrawal from Iraq they will OWN the aftermath, If they tie the administration up in hearings on things like wiretapping and other Patriot Act provisions or open US courts to detainees in Guantanamo the will own the consequences of the aftermath to that too. I have lived under every president since FDR (I was a young child). I have prospered under every one but I have admired very few of them.
 
Schneibster said:
Texas, you and I are apparently worlds apart on ideology- but very close together in our estimation of the situation. People, listen: Shrub is NOT a politician. And Scooter was not PARDONED, he had his jail time COMMUTED. Think about the implications of those two statements. And remember that no matter how much is made of how dumb Shrub is, no question, he's pretty smart. This was a blow whose power will not be felt for a while until everyone figures it out. It may be difficult to counter.
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Thank you.
 
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