Has Michael Moore become a full blown Truther?

Ouch Conspri, you sound like you're still having trouible getting over thew 2000 election man. Let it go. That level of vitrole will just cause you an ulser for sure. We all know that Bush is an idiot, but criminal? you're really trying to push the anti-Bush hatred uphill with that one.
 
And you, Ron, cannot accept the fact that Bill Clinton, despite being impeached by the House, had an approval rating that never dipped below 50 percent. Hurts, doesn't it?
A small correction here. Clinton's approval ratings were generally over 50%, but his low was 36%. His high was 73% and he finished his second term at 65%.
 
There are a lot, but I stopped paying attention to Moore so long ago that I forget most of the issues.

I remember seeing Bowling for Columbine I think it was where he was touting how the NRA was so callous as to have a convention in the area just after the shooting occurred and how insensitive it was of them to do that.

But what he left out was that they were contractually obligated by the city to hold the convention and were not allowed to postpone it. To add insult to injury, Moore then proceeds to show clips from a much older convention showing them saying suggestive things. Well, they were not suggestive in context of the convention that was being shown. but the editing and use o the wrong footage was done to make it appear as if they were talking about the Columnbine shootings.

The average person watching would have no way to know that this was not a muchb older convention being shown and that the clips were in no way making such references since they happens so much earlier. They are completely mislead here.

THAT is just one of 100s of examples (and I may be getting it a little wrong) of complete dishonesty that is being portrayed as a documentary. And at the time of me watching it, I believed every word he said and fell for every editing trick he used. I am angry with him for trying to trick me and others.
Nope. Not true. This is what happens when you go to Web sites specifically setup to discredit Moore. It's hate peddling. Like for Hillary Clinton. Like for Cindy Sheehan. Michael J. Fox (via Rush Limbaugh). These sites, run by right wingers, have the money and motivation.

Here is Charlton Heston's speech given in Denver that day, which in fact was 10 days after the Columbine shooting:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/heston.php

Here's something from Moore, on Bowling for Columbine. Note that he does NOT say all of the movie is a fact. Only that those facts presented in the movie are true:
I can guarantee to you, without equivocation, that every fact in my movie is true. Three teams of fact-checkers and two groups of lawyers went through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that every statement of fact is indeed an indisputable fact. Trust me, no film company would ever release a film like this without putting it through the most vigorous vetting process possible. The sheer power and threat of the NRA is reason enough to strike fear in any movie studio or theater chain. The NRA will go after you without mercy if they think there's half a chance of destroying you. That's why we don't have better gun laws in this country – every member of Congress is scared to death of them.

Well, guess what. Total number of lawsuits to date against me or my film by the NRA? NONE. That's right, zero. And don't forget for a second that if they could have shut this film down on a technicality they would have. But they didn't and they can't – because the film is factually solid and above reproach. In fact, we have not been sued by any individual or group over the statements made in "Bowling for Columbine?" Why is that? Because everything we say is true – and the things that are our opinion, we say so and leave it up to the viewer to decide if our point of view is correct or not for each of them.

Here's Moore's entire statement on the subject:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/
 
It was more than that.

-Gumboot


Thanks, sorry for the misinfo. I knew I was probably getting something wrong, but it was along the lines of that. I tried to put some hints in there, so I hope no one thinks I was trying to pull the same tricks Moore does. Lol!
 
A small correction here. Clinton's approval ratings were generally over 50%, but his low was 36%. His high was 73% and he finished his second term at 65%.
Good catch, thanks. That was apparently just as he was getting started, back there in 1993.
 
Nope. Not true.

No?

Heston's speech from BfC

GOOD MORNING.

Thank you all for coming and thank you for supporting your organization.

I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today.

I have a message from the mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver.

He sent me this, and it says: "Don't come here. We don't want you here."

I said to the mayor, "This is our country. As Americans we're free
to travel wherever we want in our broad land."


Heston's speech from Moore's own site.

GOOD MORNING.

I want to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you for coming and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Of course, you have a right to be here.

As you know, we've canceled the festivities and fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. I apologize for that. But it's fitting and proper that we should do this ... because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity

Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver, sent me a message: "Don't come here. We don't want you here, "

I say to the Mayor, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you could say the same. But the Mayor said, "Don't come."

I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing. "Don't come here." This is our country. As Americans we are free to travel wherever we wish in our broad land.

notice any minor editing?
 
I'll tell you exactly why Michael Moore is so viciously attacked in this country. It's very similar to why Hillary Clinton is so viciously attacked. The right wing controls mass media here, and the right wing has NO TOLERANCE for dissenting views. And they hate winners. When one slips by - the right-wing starts bellowing: LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS! LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS! Friggin' crybabies.

This is one of those cases where prolonged exposure to Troofer hyperbole has impaired my ability to discern between sarcastic jokery and outhouse-rat craziness. Some part of my brain genuinely believes, having read many of your posts on this forum, that you are far too intelligent to mean all that stuff literally, but still, I can't really tell.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Ouch Conspri, you sound like you're still having trouible getting over thew 2000 election man. Let it go. That level of vitrole will just cause you an ulser for sure. We all know that Bush is an idiot, but criminal? you're really trying to push the anti-Bush hatred uphill with that one.
Hey Wolf -

Any decent and normal-thinking American has trouble getting over the 2000 election. Even those who voted for Bush.

I won't be getting an ulcer. :) Would have already happened.

Bush is a criminal many times over. For him NOT to have been impeached long ago merely underscores the power that the right wing has in the media, the Washington lobbies, the business world; and the reluctance of Republicans in Congress to break out of their lockstepping partisan march.

You can almost throw a dart at Bush and anywhere it hits is crime. He lied - completely - about the reasons and justification for initiating an offensive war against a nation that did not attack the United States. All lies. Every bit of it. When Clinton lied as a result of having sex with an adult woman, he was impeached by the House. No one died as a result of that sexual activity. When Bush lied about the reasons for completely smashing a foreign country - more than 3,500 American families have individually had to figure out some way to adjust to the absence of their family member. Tens of thousands of other American families have to cope with the fact that their loved one has no hands. Or legs. Or is blind. Or is paralyzed. Or has brain damage. Or...

That's criminal. To me, anyway. And to millions of other Americans.

Bush spied on Americans without first obtaining FISA warrants. That is a crime. Then he lied about it. Another crime.

Bush installed former campaign workers in key government positions to suppress the truth about global warming reports. That's a crime.

Bush - or his Administration - destroyed untold amounts of government property (emails) for motivations yet unknown. That's a crime.

And it goes from there, in varying degrees.

I really wish Bush was just an idiot. We've had plenty of those. But this goes much further than mere idiocy.
 
This is one of those cases where prolonged exposure to Troofer hyperbole has impaired my ability to discern between sarcastic jokery and outhouse-rat craziness. Some part of my brain genuinely believes, having read many of your posts on this forum, that you are far too intelligent to mean all that stuff literally, but still, I can't really tell.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Are you an American? Do you live here in the USA?

I'm no more intelligent than the guy next door to me or the woman across the street. How can I be? I'm from Ohio, and am part Polish. :)

"Liberal Media Bias" is a right-wing chant that has as much twoof to it as "9/11 Was An Inside Job!".
 
He lied - completely - about the reasons and justification for initiating an offensive war against a nation that did not attack the United States. All lies. Every bit of it.

Was it? The almost overwhelming consensous at the time, even from countries such as France and Germany was that Iraq DID have WMDs. The conflict was what should be done. The US and UK wanted to deal with him and any weapons themselves by invading, while France and co wanted to allow the UN inspectors to deal with them. Heck even your hero Hillary voted FOR the invasion. Can you show categoric proof that Bush knew that there were no WMD in Iraq when his own intelligence community was telling him that there were?
 
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Your ignorance, Ron, is so transparent that only zealous idealism can be pointed to as the culprit. You certainly cannot claim youth as an excuse for your ignorance. You're an oldster like me. Yet, like a small child, you view the world in the harsh contrasts of black and white.


My ignorance of what? I've been accused of many things but never "zealous idealism." It's fair to say that people who know me would vote me the person least likely to be zealously idealistic about anything.


It is your exceedingly narrow viewpoint that is responsible for you making such pathetically ignorant statements such as Democrats being "dangerously weak on national security".


Why do people like Bob Beckel talk about the necessity for shedding the party's image as weak on national security? Why do you suppose that pundits on both sides acknowledge that the perception that Dems are anti-military is more than an image problem?


And don't be shy. You DO love the Republican Party.


Don't act dumb. I can't imagine loving a cowardly bunch of mediocrities. I don't how you manage it.


Or rather, what it has become - what it has been hijacked into.
Hijacked? Words have meanings, you know. Nobody hijacked the party.


Time and time again, your posts illustrate undying adoration for the criminals that are the Bush Administration.


I guess you could say that I adore Bush, I just don't approve of the way he handles his job. Makes a lot of sense, huh?


You, Ron, are one of the 29 percenters still propping up the criminals. Too bad for you that us 71 percenters have unmasked these thugs.


Are you becoming a twoofer? "Unmasked these thugs"? You unmasked them as... people with whom you have policy disagreements. Such absurd overheated rhetoric exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of the left.


And you, Ron, cannot accept the fact that Bill Clinton, despite being impeached by the House, had an approval rating that never dipped below 50 percent. Hurts, doesn't it?


Uh, why should it hurt? I was opposed to his impeachment. The people had the opportunity to vote him out and they opted not to.


Bill Clinton can wade into any crowd of people, anywhere in the world, and be overwhelmed by the affection and admiration of the folks in such a crowd. Your boy Bush? When he leaves office, he'll need an armed escort just to pick up the newspaper on his front lawn each morning.


Clinton never won fifty percent of the popular vote. He wasted eight years of the nation's time amassing enormous wealth for himself and Hillary (they are worth an estimated fifty million dollars today). He left absolutely no footprints in the hourglass. He has no legacy whatever, foreign or domestic. He accomplished nothing. Bush will be viewed as a Wilsonian visionary, although it is likely that his ambitious goal to remake the Middle East will end in failure.


What you so completely fail to realize, in your rabid zeal, is that Bush, with his insane "mission" to smash and overtake Iraq, has created an untold number of jihadists, and future jihadists, that never would have gone that route had the path to such madness not been blazed by Stupid-Boy himself.


You sound very silly today. What's wrong? The mission, obviously, was to replace Saddam Hussein with a democratic government. The jihadists perceive that goal as a deadly threat to their long-term aims. They understand the stakes very well and realize that Iraq is a life-and-struggle for their ideology. I must continue to remind you that Bush is smarter than Gore and Kerry, which isn't saying much. I see rabid zeal from you--very little from me.


When 9/11 happened - instead of us Americans being able to count on steady, intelligent and reasoned response from our president;


Does that include fighting back? Are you certain Gore would have responded with force? What makes you think so?

instead of our president exploiting the capital that our country had earned (before him) in the world to combat terrorism; instead of our president appointing the shrewdest experts available to deal with the complexities and ramifications of confronting our actual enemies: he did what he did. And he now has the distinction of having directly caused - through his war fever aimed specifically at the country that was NOT involved in 9/11 - the deaths of more Americans than Osama bin Laden. With tens of thousands grieviously wounded.


Please. This tired song-and-dance plays well in Democratic primaries. The moment America struck back, we lost the good will of the rest of the world. Our "allies" showed us their true colors. Let's agree that America will be reviled whenever it asserts itself. Our job is to dole out cash and take crap from the fanatics and barbarians of the world. If we want to be liked, we'd better be prepared to absorb plenty of punishment.


So, would you like to explain to me once again why my opposition to such a leader is akin to "passionate love for a bunch of unprincipled hacks"?

Your hero - Bush - does NOT fight the jihadists. He invents them, instigates them, provokes them. Give me some reasons as to why he would do this.

You display unrestrained admiration for unprincipled, short-sighted pols who are clueless to define America's proper role in a very complex world. Bush fights the jihadists as hard as he can. Maybe it's not good enough and they are destined to win. Jean Francois Revel explained why democracies are at a disadvantage in confrontations with authoritarian states. I'd recommend two excellent studies of the jihadist mind, Knowing the Enemy by Mary Habeck and The War of Ideas by Walid Phares, but I suspect you'd dismiss them with a few uninformed slurs at the authors.

You never did get around to telling us how the Democrats will meet the jihadist threat. The Breck Girl, John Edwards, has stated that the war on terror isn't real; it's just a bumper-sticker slogan. Is he right?
 
Bush installed former campaign workers in key government positions to suppress the truth about global warming reports. That's a crime.

And exactly how is this a crime? It might be very poor science, but what law was broken?

The other two I honestly don't know US law well enough to know if they are illegal or not.
 
Oh, and if Bush is such a Criminal, why haven't the Dem's impeached him yet? They have had nearly a year in control of both houses to do it. Why haven't they?
 
A small correction here. Clinton's approval ratings were generally over 50%, but his low was 36%. His high was 73% and he finished his second term at 65%.


I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that when the voters swept the Democrats out of control of Congress in 1994 in a historic landslide and polls in early 1995 showed Clinton running fifteen points behind a generic Republican, Bubba wasn't riding too high.
 
One thing that bothered me about in his 9/11 movie was when he showed all the outtakes of people making mistakes and licking their combs and what not. At the time I thought it was very entertaining because I didn't care for any of the people he was making fun of. And I still don't. But after a while I started to think about it. How serious of a documentary maker/film maker can he be if he is going to use cheap tactics to embarrass people. I think that's just irresponsible for a documentary no matter who the people being made fun of are. It showed a real lack of class. I expect that from myself, but not from someone making a serious documentary about serious issues.
 
I must continue to remind you that Bush is smarter than Gore and Kerry

I'm not sure he is actually smarter than Gore. Smarter then kerry yeah, but so is a frog.
 
Oh, and if Bush is such a Criminal, why haven't the Dem's impeached him yet? They have had nearly a year in control of both houses to do it. Why haven't they?
Let's start with the numbers:

The Dems have NOT had control of both Houses for nearly a year. Five months - since late January, 2007.

In the House of Representatives, a simple majority is needed for impeachment. The Dems have that. But - impeachment is absolutely no simple matter. Lots and lots and lots and lots of work, time, effort are involved is such a serious process.

In the Senate, a two-thirds majority - minimum of 67 votes - is necessary to indict for impeachment. The Dems have only the barest of a majority in the Senate. As close as it can possibly get. And that's with Kissyface (Lieberman) playing one side, then the other, for political gain. And we have already seen that the Republicans in the Senate are going to remain rather partisan in many issues. The Dems in the Senate know - sure as ten dimes buys a buck - that Republicans will NOT do the decent thing and vote to impeach the President for what he has done.

Therefore the Dems are not pursuing what would be seen as an activity purely symbolic: A vote to impeach in the House, no indictment in the Senate (which is in fact what happened with Clinton).
 
"Has Michael Moore become a full blow Truther" God I hope so. It would finally be proof to alot of my vastly liberal friends that Moore's feces is not rosy smelling. The guy is about as biased and dishonest as they get.
 

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