[Moderated]175 did NOT hit the South tower.

[sleahead]

You've put up some nice photos, they take me back.
The vast bulk of your photos are the public areas. The foyer and mezzanine were not carpeted. Only some of the floors that were mainly used by visitors were carpeted. The vast bulk of the floors were not carpeted at the core or the corridor that surrounded the core. The cafes that were available mostly to people who worked there, were not carpeted. The bulk of the offices were not carpeted. That's my own personal testimony

.

Morning, Malcolm. What covered the areas that you claim were not carpeted and do you have anything other than your own testimony to back this up?

 

[gumboot]

I use the term 'sealed unit' because that's what the twins were. You could not open a window.

I've never in my life seen a high-rise office building with windows that open.

-Gumboot

 

[Cuddles]

You say it is not a scientific law, yet you say you know what it is ?
It is called Hooke's law, you say it is not a law?
This is what else you had to say about Hooke's Law,
"Well, no-one else seems to have done so, so I'll bite. There is no such equation. You have made it up. No-one else in the entire history of the world has ever used, or even written down, that equation. This is because it is wrong. In fact, it is not even wrong, it is complete and utter nonsense.

Units of extension are distance (m). Units of force are Newtons (kg.m.s-2. These are not the same thing. What you call an equation is no such thing because the two sides are not equal. That is what the "equa" part of "equation" means".

You appear to have missed the point yet again. Hooke's law could be called a scientific law. You did not write down Hooke's law.

 

[Cuddles]

With great difficulty until someone pressed the demolition switch and then it didn't matter. Those murders will be avenged, one way or another, make no mistake about that.

You appear, yet again, to have utterly missed the point. People lived and breathed in the towers for something like 30 years. If they were a sealed unit with no air able to enter this could not have happened. If air can get in for people to breathe, why can't it get in for fire to burn?

 

[SOMERLED]

.

Morning, Malcolm. What covered the areas that you claim were not carpeted and do you have anything other than your own testimony to back this up?

Good morning,
Only my own personal experience.
I once saw Robert Redford and Faye Dunaway, shoot a scene from Three Days of The Condor in the foyer. It was a cold February morning in 1975.
It's not apparent in the film that the scene is actually in WTC2.
The scene only lasts for moments, but it took them all morning to film it.
She walks out of a lift and he pokes his head over the balcony. If I hadn't watched it filmed, I would never have guessed where it was. If you watch the film and blink, you'll miss the scene altogether. It's just some people walking out of a lift. That's about all the proof I can provide.
You know the truth when you read it though, don't you.
Each upper floor had a corridor than ran around the outside of the core (where the lifts were), but inside the offices.
This corridor ran right around the outside of the core and separated the offices from the lifts. On some floors there was a cafe. Neither that corridor nor the cafes were carpeted. That I'm sure of.
I lost an argument on another site, by saying that no lifts went the full height of the building. What I should have said, was no public lifts. So I'm not the worlds best expert on the twins, but I knew them well enough.
I daresay some or all of the offices were carpetted, perhaps individual tenants were responsible for such carpetting, that I don't know. The mezzanine and the foyer were partially carpetted when I knew them, as they were on the day they were demolished by controlled demolition, as this film shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23DB_6ASkdE
In my day, you could walk right in from the street. I last visited around 1993 or 4 or thereabouts. I was surprised to look over a wall, into a lower area and see a queue, that stretched right around the base of the south tower, so I didn't bother.
The point here is, that carpets or not, there wasn't that much to burn.
There is no doubt that those buildings came down via controlled demolition, none at all. I'm still surprised to find a site that maintains anything different.
The covering that I remember was a marble or fake marble downstairs and tiles in the corridors and cafes.

 

[SOMERLED]

I've never in my life seen a high-rise office building with windows that open.

-Gumboot

How about the Empire State Building?

 

[gumboot]

The point here is, that carpets or not, there wasn't that much to burn.

That is complete and utter garbage. Every tenant floor was packed with flammable materials:

Desks
Computers
Printers
Photocopiers
Paper
Chairs
Bookshelves
Filing Cabinets
Wall Partitions
Interior Walls
Interior Doors
Carpet
Notice Boards
Benches
Boardroom Tables
Board Room Chairs
Televisions
VCRs
DVD Players
Files
Books
Manuals
Publications
Magazines
Clothing
Stationary

Do I need to go on?

Office buildings are literally filled with flammable materials.

-Gumboot

 

[SOMERLED]

You appear, yet again, to have utterly missed the point. People lived and breathed in the towers for something like 30 years. If they were a sealed unit with no air able to enter this could not have happened. If air can get in for people to breathe, why can't it get in for fire to burn?

For the life of the towers, people breathed via air conditioning.
Air conditioning feeds fresh air from the roof into the offices and back to the roof. On 9/11 if it was working at all, it would have been recycling smoke.

 

[SOMERLED]

You appear to have missed the point yet again. Hooke's law could be called a scientific law. You did not write down Hooke's law.

I refer you to post number 1908. I not only wrote it down properly, but showed how it works.

 

[Belz...]

Show me one piece of evidence that the plane that hit the south tower was 175 - just one.

I'm mystified as to how anybody can look at the facade of one of the twins and not notice it.

Corrugated:

The proper equation is written down a dozen or more times.

So you admit that your first rendition of it was wrong ?

NO, you got it wrong. The same way you get most everything wrong about 9/11 and then pretend, like some pretentious schoolboy, that you can talk your way out of it.

WHAT do I have wrong ? You can't even quote other people's posts properly, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

While you're at it, answer this: have you EVER seen an open fire that burnt petroleum-based material ?

Let's see shall we. I find your posts deliberately obfuscatory. In consequence, I will not be answering any more of them.
Goodbye.

I think you find them inconvenient. That's why you've completely ignored my question about smoke colour for about 5 posts, now. You know for a FACT that black smoke doesn't necessarily mean lack of oxygen, and you refuse to admit it because you think it would be a show of weakness.

 

[Belz...]

Show me these SERIAL NUMBERS.

In order to convict someone of a crime, one does not need a clear picture of the person doing the crime. Why do you need to actually SEE the numbers on the plane ? You are not using reasonable doubt.

You are insulting my intelligence really.

There is nothing to insult.

You burn wood in a steel stove. You don't burn steel in a wooden stove.

Why don't you check with a professional, then. Surely he'll agree with you.

that are beneath my dignity

You might want to climb down from that moral high-ground of yours.

175 did NOT hit the south tower. A plane from Offutt AFB did.

All we've heard to prove this is speculation. How are we to trust this assertion of yours ?

From 65 to 80 % of the american people believe 9/11 was an inside job and/ want a new investigation. Why do you not?

Argument from popularity.

The rest of the building was not in the way. The top chunk was falling off, going sideways.

No, it was falling DOWN and tilting. It wasn't going sideways. And even if it did, do you have any idea what force would be required to keep it going until it cleared the bottom part ????

 

[Belz...]

If you'd have jumped off the side of WTC 7 at the same moment the building started to fall. Had I been in the Penthouse, we could have held a conversation on the way down.

Again, how do you know ? Did you calculate the actual collapse time of 7 WTC vs "free fall" ?

You are coming down through fresh air. I'm going down through thousands and thousands of tied together welded, bolted etc steel columns. joists, floors etc.
How can that be without controlled demolition?
It cannot.

Argument from personal incredulity. You have not shown why this is impossible. What you have shown is your inability to understand the scale of the mass coming down.

How did a plane with underslung engines, manage to go through a ground floor window, without leaving its engines in the lawn?

Because it isn't made out of LEGO blocks.

Total, complete, utter and absolute nonsense.

But you have NO IDEA. You are using your ignorance in these matters as a shield. Do you know that steel weakens significantly at low temperatures ? Do you know that the outer "shell" of a burnt timber will protect the remaining wood inside from the heat ? Do you know about convection ? Do you know anything about this issue ?

Only my own personal experience.

It is obviously woefully insufficient.

By the way, are you aware that computers burn ? What colour do you think the smoke is, when they do ?

 

[Dave_46]

Total, complete, utter and absolute nonsense.

Thank you for such a well argued response, it's all so clear now.

 

[Swing Dangler]

Show me one piece of evidence that the plane that hit the south tower was 175 - just one.

Belz, actually you can't use that picture to prove that was 175 as the tail number is not discernible. Do you have another picture of flight 175 with the proper tail number displayed as to identify the plane?

 

[SOMERLED]

Originally Posted by gumboot
I've never in my life seen a high-rise office building with windows that open.

Would you kindly answer my question with regard to The Empire State Building, before you change the subject.

 

[cloudshipsrule]

Malcolm,

You do realize that when the planes struck the buildings that windows in OTHER nearby buildings were broken out, right? Think about this. Even if the GAPING hole created by the plane wasn't enough to feed O2 to the fires (It was, by the way), the countless broken windows would have added significant amounts of O2.

Do you understand the stack effect of fires? Ever build a fire on a camping trip? Orienting the wood in a teepee fashion makes the fire catch much faster because heat rises and air is drawn back into the bottom of the stack.

When the planes struck the towers, voids were created on those floors. Fire started. Heat rose. Air was drawn in broken windows and the gaping hole. Air was drawn up from the lower parts of the towers via the dozens of elevator shafts. It's not friggin' rocket science.

As mentioned before, besides the TONS of carpet already shown you in previous posts, there was literally TONS of additional material able to burn. Care to guess how many particle board book shelves and books were on each office floor?

Have you ever been in an office with high-volume copiers? Do you know how many reams of paper people tend to store beside high-volume copiers?

Did you know that plastic burns, and fabric covered chairs can burn too? Guess how many of those there were per floor.

Your argument that there wasn't O2 to feed the fires nor material to burn is full of hot air. It's ridiculous. Do you know how far you're isolating yourself from this idiotic movement you're trying to embrace? Do you have the name of any other individual in the lie movement that believes there wasn't anything to burn in the twin towers?

LOOK AT THIS:

http://www.harborsidenj.com/buccinowtc_a.jpg

Think anything in the towers was burning when this shot was taken?

LOOK AT THIS:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...gbv=2&ndsp=18&svnum=10&hl=en&safe=active&sa=N

You think those are small fires?

Give us a break!

 

[SpitfireIX]

Total, complete, utter and absolute nonsense.

So, if I go to a forum frequented by mechanical engineers and post that, everyone there will tell me it's nonsense, right, Malcolm?

If I go to a forum frequented by firefighters they'll tell me the same thing, right?

Are you up to the challenge?

 

[gumboot]

Originally Posted by gumboot
I've never in my life seen a high-rise office building with windows that open.

Would you kindly answer my question with regard to The Empire State Building, before you change the subject.

No, I don't want to. Got any evidence that the windows of the ESB open?

-Gumboot

 

[SOMERLED]

Thank you for such a well argued response, it's all so clear now.

My pleasure.

 

[pomeroo]

I am talking about the walls of the Pentagon.
You are talking about the walls of the south tower.
I hope this was a genuine mistake on your part and not deliberate obfuscation.

Not a very convincing try. You were not talking about the Pentagon. I stand in awe of your extraordinary talent for combining genuine mistakes with deliberate obfuscation.