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Skeptisism vs Cynicism on 911

SYLVESTER1592

Critical Thinker
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
307
After looking at other threads in the conspiracy forum, I like to present two questions:
1) Has skepticism about the conspiracy theories reached the level of cynicism?
2) To what extent are we still skeptics and where do we start becoming missionaries for what we perceive to be true?

For reference of the definitions:
The dictionary:
Cynical
Cynic
Skeptical
Skeptic

Now, which one do you feel applies? I think after 6 years, everyone already made up his/her mind in many cases, based on previous experience, background knowledge, personal reasons and scientific review. Some of the conclusions are detailed and well founded some are based on a general perception and everything in between. I agree that it may be very frustrating to hear twoofers speak, but we give them a chance anyway. That is amendable but to what extent are we still skeptics and where do we start becoming missionaries for what we perceive to be true.

The obvious question is how many chances we should give to a conspiracy theory. Based on the definitions presented above, I would say at least one until it has been disproven beyond any doubt… regardless of the person presenting it. True skeptics are in some way, to some level, really fence sitters in my opinion, as opposed to a true cynic. The million dollar challenge is a good example of this. Up to this day no one has yet presented convincing evidence of the paranormal or homeopathy to be true… but if they could, it would certainly be worth a million dollars. I personally don’t believe they can, but I feel that doesn’t make me a cynic yet as long as I am able to doubt myself.

I often look back and find out that I have changed my mind, found a new perspective. I tend to regard a change of mind under the guide of a skeptic point of view amendable, rather than a sign of weakness. Similarly, gaining insight by losing a well argued point to a skeptic is really progress rather than a loss. I do not expect a conspiracy theorist to “admit defeat” neither would they expect it from me, but rather to remain honest about what he believes to be true and either change his mind in the face of evidence or at least consider the evidence before making up his mind. This also works the other way around.

This is just my opinion,

SYL :)

PS. I am looking for the opinion of the forum rather than another animated debate. I am looking for well written civil responses only (400-1000 words) that can stand on their own without direct reference to the OP or other posts. Lists of links to websites and short provoking questions to the original poster do not fall under that category. Answer the two questions in your own words presenting your own opinion, any position is acceptable. Do not attack other members in the thread, but of course feel free to respond to the arguments. I have added my opinion to anticipate the expected questions.

Good luck
 
PS. I am looking for the opinion of the forum rather than another animated debate. I am looking for well written civil responses only (400-1000 words)
Damn! I could only think of 373 words.

that can stand on their own without direct reference to the OP or other posts.
Crap! I just directly referred to the OP.

Lists of links to websites and short provoking questions to the original poster do not fall under that category.
Ouch! I lose.

Answer the two questions in your own words presenting your own opinion, any position is acceptable.
The burden of proof remains on the conspiracists...

Good luck
...and luck has nothing to do with it.
 
Do you think you can write a decent comprehensive essay on it? I'm sure I'll believe you. I still have done so in the past.
 
PS. I am looking for the opinion of the forum rather than another animated debate. I am looking for well written civil responses only (400-1000 words) that can stand on their own without direct reference to the OP or other posts. Lists of links to websites and short provoking questions to the original poster do not fall under that category. Answer the two questions in your own words presenting your own opinion, any position is acceptable. Do not attack other members in the thread, but of course feel free to respond to the arguments. I have added my opinion to anticipate the expected questions.
I had penned a 652-word reply that would have brought the house down. But then you said a civil response and I don't have a lawyer. And I didn't want him and/or her to retain a third of the prize money on contingency.

There is money involved, yes? I like both money and winning, together.
 
Im not quite sure what kind of opinion you are looking for here. Over 6 years, mounds of evidence has been gathered and put together to support the official story of 9/11. It has all been backed up by experts in all the relevant fields and widely accepted worldwide. The conspiracy theorists have presented deceits and lies over the past 6 years, pushing an agenda. Not one shred of evidence has been produced by the nutters. Every single one of their claims have been debunked countless times.

So has the skepticism become cynicism? Hardly. I am STILL waiting for just ONE fact from the CFs. Just one.

Am I a missionary for what I "perceive" to be true? Not in the least. I defend science and the facts. There is no fact in conspiracy theories, as we have seen over the past 6 years.
 
Do you think you can write a decent comprehensive essay on it? I'm sure I'll believe you. I still have done so in the past.
Second time: do you agree that the burden of proof of conspiracy theories is on the theorists and not on other people?
 
I had penned a 652-word reply that would have brought the house down. But then you said a civil response and I don't have a lawyer. And I didn't want him and/or her to retain a third of the prize money on contingency.

There is money involved, yes? I like both money and winning, together.
Sorry just boasting right ... :D

(Forgot the qoute)
 
1. Speaking only for myself, I'm skeptical about new claims, but becoming more cynical about claimants. I used to doubt it when somebody would post the "socks" graphic, but after seeing it turn out to be right so many times I'm inclined to believe it than not. I guess you could say that my skepticism has switched direction on that point; I used to be skeptical about claims that newbies were just socks, now I'm skeptical about claims that they're not.

The problem is that there's really very little left that hasn't been thoroughly debunked. I'd love to see something new that has at least some validity, but about all we've seen this year has been the "North of the Citgo" claim and the "WTC 7 BBC script" claim, neither of which increased my respect for the 9-11 Deniers, as the arguments were ridiculous on their face.

2. As I have given two high school lectures on the mistakes of 9-11 Denial, I could be perceived as a missionary for the official story. However, I also stress that the kids should always strive to be skeptics but not cynics, as it seems to me that the Deniers are the cynics. Remember, Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas both asserted in the debate with Gravy and Pomeroo that there was nothing that could falsify their beliefs.
 
Second time: do you agree that the burden of proof of conspiracy theories is on the theorists and not on other people?
I have posted my opinion in the OP. I think it's clear I have an opinion (how could I not), and the answer is yes. So please, everyone, put the paranoia back in the refrigarator. As I stated, I´m not looking for the highly animated debate, but for well written posts from both sides.

I hope that clarifies it...

SYL :)
 
SULVESTER1592 said:
The obvious question is how many chances we should give to a conspiracy theory. Based on the definitions presented above, I would say at least one until it has been disproven beyond any doubt… regardless of the person presenting it.
That may be obvious to you, but it isn't to me. If a conspiracy theory isn't supported by evidence, and if it makes no logical sense, it doesn't get a "chance" and it is no one's job to "disprove."

Do you agree or not? Can you name a 9/11 conspiracy theory that has been dismissed by us without cause?
 
True, the burden of proof does lie with the CT people who make up the false information on 9/11. This is not an opinion based voting scam.
 
Can you name a 9/11 conspiracy theory that has been dismissed by us without cause?

Hmmm. I don't think that we have gave Magz a good enough chance with his theory that a jet fighter shot a missile at the incoming airliners, missed, and it then hit WTC7 causing the building to collapse. :p
 
I have posted my opinion in the OP. I think it's clear I have an opinion (how could I not), and the answer is yes. So please, everyone, put the paranoia back in the refrigarator. As I stated, I´m not looking for the highly animated debate, but for well written posts from both sides.

I hope that clarifies it...

SYL :)
No, that doesn't clarify it. In your OP you said that a conspiracy theory should be given a chance until it's disproven. Here you seem to be agreeing with me that it's the job of the conspiracists to prove their theories, not ours to disprove them. Can you clearly state which you believe?
 
What? There was nothing in the copy of the JREF CT course syllabus that said I'd be required to write an essay.

False advertising I say.
 
That may be obvious to you, but it isn't to me. If a conspiracy theory isn't supported by evidence, and if it makes no logical sense, it doesn't get a "chance" and it is no one's job to "disprove."

Do you agree or not? Can you name a 9/11 conspiracy theory that has been dismissed by us without cause?

Wow,
I see you have an opinion, well founded, very clear. Now write it down...
If there is some pledge of alegiance you want me to take, then I'll will state what I have stated elsewhere. I think there are no unexplained questions left.
I also believe many other people don't think so. Now it's clear you have a very well described position on this. All I would like is that you write it down comprehensively in a post 400-1000 words long, civil and able to stand on its own. Can you do that?

SYL :)
 
Wow,
I see you have an opinion, well founded, very clear. Now write it down...
If there is some pledge of alegiance you want me to take, then I'll will state what I have stated elsewhere. I think there are no unexplained questions left.
I also believe many other people don't think so. Now it's clear you have a very well described position on this. All I would like is that you write it down comprehensively in a post 400-1000 words long, civil and able to stand on its own. Can you do that?

SYL :)

why don't you do it yourself? why should he spend time and effort to try and disprove your delusions when you won't even make the smallest effort to prove it yourself...

If you put some energy into your delusion, i'm sure gravy will put energy into showing you why it is wrong.. but.. you don't, so no one intends to put the effort in.


On another note.. could you please write a post 400-1000 words long, civil and able to stand on its own, proving to me that there isn't an invisible pink unicorn under my bed?
 

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