USS Liberty a cover-up?

parky76 said:
please provide a source for this israeli crew member.

is it not possible that the Liberty was spying on Israel, and Israel decided to send a message?

there really was no good reason for an American intelligence ship to be off the coast of Egypt during this war. I smell an Israeli AND and American cover up. Perhaps they were both in the wrong, and decided to mutually let it go.
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That is a good approach, Parky. You're running good interference. They both were responsible for this tragedy. Somehow it was just the Americans that got killed.
 
MaGZ said:
In other words the Israelis are innocent.
It was just a big misunderstanding.
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Israel's explanation that the USS Liberty was mistakenly classified as "unknown," and then misidentified by aerial reconnaisance, fits the observed facts.

The Israelis are presumed innocent of deliberately attacking Liberty. Anyone claiming the attack was deliberate has the burden of proof.
 
parky76 said:
there really was no good reason for an American intelligence ship to be off the coast of Egypt during this war.
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Wrong.

A nation armed with the latest western equipment was going up against several opponents equipped with the latest soviet/warsaw pact gear.

The progress and outcome of the conflict would have had a significant impact on US/NATO planning for a possible conflict with the Soviet Union.
 
SpitfireIX said:
Israel's explanation that the USS Liberty was mistakenly classified as "unknown," and then misidentified by aerial reconnaisance, fits the observed facts.

The Israelis are presumed innocent of deliberately attacking Liberty. Anyone claiming the attack was deliberate has the burden of proof.
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Spitfire, the Israelis are always innocent. Name a time when they harmed America? The Pollard spy case?
 
MaGZ said:
Spitfire, the Israelis are always innocent.
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Straw man. I said the Israelis are entitled to a presumption of innocence. I never said they are innocent in all cases. Further, the claim that the attack was deliberate is an extraordinary claim, especially in the absence of a credible motive.

MaGZ said:
Name a time when they harmed America? The Pollard spy case?
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The presumption of innocence applies in all cases. Iraq was entitled to a presumption that the attack on the USS Stark was accidental.

And whether America was significantly harmed by Pollard's actions is debatable.

Finally, by your logic, we'd better throughly investigate whether the US Navy deliberately sank the Ehime Maru, considering the Navy's extensive history of deliberately sinking Japanese ships. :rolleyes:
 
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boloboffin said:
Are you being ironical-like?
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Not entirely...

Military personnel have to suffer the consequences of their superiors' orders. Those consequences may include death, and this may be known at the time. Indeed, the officers themselves may know that they are ordering their subordinates to certain death.

If every military member had the right to a full explanation from their superiors for every incident and action they are directed to take, the military would not function.

When no assistance was sent to the USS Liberty and when no one was blamed, the crew of the ship have to accept that these decisions are in the best interests of the United States.

It is a given, when you join the military that your concerns are not important in the big scheme of things - indeed your life is not important. What is important is the interests and concerns of your nation.

-Gumboot
 
parky76 said:
please provide a source for this israeli crew member.

is it not possible that the Liberty was spying on Israel, and Israel decided to send a message?

there really was no good reason for an American intelligence ship to be off the coast of Egypt during this war. I smell an Israeli AND and American cover up. Perhaps they were both in the wrong, and decided to mutually let it go.
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To put this as gently as I can, if it were/is ever proven that it was known as an American ship, whether it was spying on Israel or not, to the Israelis prior to or early in the attack I would have no further use for nor would I any longer support Israel in any way - nor would I support any US politician who did.
For those who have read other input of mine (except in other Liberty threads)
and find it odd, it isn't. If it had been known at the time it occurred I would have wanted Israel attacked immediately by Air Force and Navy even more than I was happy about Israel winning the Six-Day war without that cloud.

By the by - there is a good reason for American intelligence gathering systems to be wherever they wish outside the US.
 
And that good reason is?

By the way, if solid evidence does indeed come out one day that Israel clearly knew the identity of the ship as American, and attacked it anyways, that may be the end of the special Israel-American relationship.
 
parky76 said:
And that good reason is?

By the way, if solid evidence does indeed come out one day that Israel clearly knew the identity of the ship as American, and attacked it anyways, that may be the end of the special Israel-American relationship.
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In 1967 there was no "special relationship" between Israel and the US. IMHO, this fact is why the Liberty incident seems to have been given new life in recent years - people think that we were attacked by a close ally. Wasn't the case in 1967.

My take on this incident - and it is just my opinion - is that the attack was deliberate (not accidental) because the Israelies feared that the US was going to provide intelligence to Egypt. The Libertyy was a spy ship after all, and the US was fearful that Egypt was getting too close to the Soviets. Israeli fears that the US would provide the Egyptians with military intelligence was not unthinkable at the time, given that the US was eager to wrest them away from Soviet influences during the peak of the Cold War.

I think it is obvious that the Liberty was there to spy, and was in a sensitive area in a war zone. Afterwards, the whole thing was hushed up because diplomatic niceties outweighed the deaths of the crew in the eyes of the powers that be. So Israel claims it weas a mistake, the US officially accepts that and doesn't have to explain what the Liberty was actually doing there.

My $0.02
 
We doing this one again??

I'm just waiting for the so-called evidence of "badly botched photos", etc, etc.
 
I once found a website that did a good job of breaking down the whole situation with the misidentification's and such that basically resulted in one gigantic FUBAR situation for all sides involved. If anyone knows of it a link would be nice but I'm gonna endeavor to relocate it myself.


Also all discussion about it needs to take into account that this was not some regular Navy ship. This was an intelligence ship and that changes everything in terms of how both countries would treat and respond to the situation diplomatically.
 
How much $$$ was he offering up to find things he clearly missed in that photo? $200 wasn't it?

ETA: Did a search and looked up that it was $500. Then saw that Gravy had nicely already provided links to it. Doh!
 
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Zep said:
Do you need the cash?
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I believe Gumboot very nicely met all conditions of his challenge already.


If you're just offering up $500 though I'm not above taking it. I'm not above most things...... wow I can't believe I admitted that. Anyways it's been awhile since I went on a DVD shopping spree at Best Buy.:D :cool:
 
Travis said:
I believe Gumboot very nicely met all conditions of his challenge already.


If you're just offering up $500 though I'm not above taking it. I'm not above most things...... wow I can't believe I admitted that. Anyways it's been awhile since I went on a DVD shopping spree at Best Buy.:D :cool:
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No no! You misunderstand! I just wondered if you were after immediate cash, because David Carmichael's offer was a lay-down gimme if you needed some.
 
Zep said:
No no! You misunderstand! I just wondered if you were after immediate cash, because David Carmichael's offer was a lay-down gimme if you needed some.
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If I remember the thread correctly he kept moving goalposts on what would qualify for meeting his demands to win the cash. Not surprising really.
 
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