Hallelujah! I smell a new brother joining the flock!
I've been doing a lot of thinking the past few months concerning religion and I keep coming to the conclusion that Atheists, Agnostics and general disbelievers are simply missing the forest through the trees. We are examining each tiny aspect of our universe while not looking at the "big picture" to see how it all comes together in a way which contradicts our world view. I have been thinking about some arguments supporting a theistic world view for a while now and there are quite a few of them which don't fit into your typical theistic arguments but are quite convincing.
Funny, when I look at, and see, the big picture, I find it's made up of lots and little ones all joined together. I go outside at night frequently to make sure I'm looking at the big picture - billions of galaxies, all created by god so humans could inhabit just this itty-bitty bit of it.
Allow me to restate what I said earlier since it's been driven off topic.
I believe that disbelievers/unbelievers are simply missing the forest through the trees. We are examining each tiny aspect of our universe while not looking at the "big picture" to see how it all comes together in a way which contradicts our world view.
I have been thinking about some arguments supporting a theistic world view for a while now and there are quite a few of them which don't fit into your typical theistic arguments but are quite convincing.
Can you expand upon those more than you have so far, because I've looked at pretty much all the arguments for the christian god and none of them raise the flag past "specious" in terms of reasoning.
No. As I stated earlier, I have been thinking about some arguments supporting a theistic world view for a while now and there are quite a few of them which don't fit into your typical theistic arguments but are quite convincing. I'm saying that there might be a rational way to believe in a God supported by purely logically consistent arguments. That perhaps I along with all other non-believers have simply been missing the forest through the trees. We are examining each tiny aspect of our universe while not looking at the "big picture" to see how it all comes together in a way which contradicts our world view.
I'm having a real struggle with this "big picture" nonsense. What do you suggest, start with the entire universe and wonder, "What's it for?" To consider a question like that, it first helps to have a look at the little pictures which make up the big one. So far, those pictures have told us (roughly): what the universe is made of, how big and old it is, how many stars are in it, what physical laws does it have and we also know an awful lot about one planet in it.
The only times our worldview ("our" being an all-embracing term for rationalists) is contradicted is when someone is lying. That is the case at the moment - there are no fairies, only hoaxes. There are no gods, only people who would have us buy their slush so we fill their coffers with tithes.
I'm talking about Yahweh I.E. the God of Abraham here specifically. Have you read Spinoza, Kant, Aquinas or C.S. Lewis and their arguments in support of a God? I have been reading about and thinking of numerous arguments in support of a God, specifically the God of Abraham and they simply aren't your old run of the mill easily refutable arguments and are highly sophisticated and convincing to even the most critical and prudent of people which I consider myself. Have you actually read these philosophers and their actual books?
Spinoza, not my cup of tea, but fair.
Kant, I have written a lengthy artice in while Herr Kant plays a part. His is the part where the pronunciation of his name in German is highly appropriate in English.
Aquinas, dear olf Uncle Tom. You do realise that every Uncle Tom ever posited is using the anology of Thomas Aquinas? The apolgists' apologist. Utter drivel not worthy of kindy kids. He looks at the big picture alright. Unfortunately all of Uncle Tom's big pictures have a god, smack bang in the middle of them. That's not one of the ways the universe works.
CS Lewis. How shall I loathe thee? Let me count the ways. While I have agrudging respect for Lewis' ability to saccharine-wrap his messages inside kids' stories, it doesn't change the fact that he was a manipulative wanker. Take him at his worth - less than a pinch of salt.
Just stick to Mark Twain.
Here's an example from modern popular culture:
Think of the movie The Matrix. In the movie all humans are living inside of a computer generated reality and they are unaware of it. Now think of the differences in interpretation of events that someone who is aware that they are living in a computer generated reality opposed to someone who isn't. Someone who is aware will see their world totally different. A cookie won't simply be a cookie and a oven won't simply be an oven. They see the bigger picture and as a consequence interpret evidences and proofs differently.
Not trying to be insulting here at all, but I genuinely wonder how old you are with that question. The kids I find who are intrigued by
The Matrix are generally twelve months out from starting an arts degree.
Alas, the world is actually as we find it. It stinks a lot of the time, but it doesn't fairly frequently as well. Douglas Adams, among others, wonders why you'd want there to be fairies at the bottom of the garden, or a sky-daddy. I admit, the sky-daddy has a couple of huge carrots - everlasting life and heaven, but empty promises are no use to anyone.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that rose might really be a hyper-intelligent, pan-dimensional being.
Well I asked what you would accept as evidence for a God. If Magic wouldn't be direct evidence for a God then what would you accept as evidence for a God? If you can't even decide what evidence you would accept for a God how can you possibly know what wouldn't be evidence for a God?
I answer this question frequently among my christian friends. One miracle, that's all I'd need. A single ressurrection, a single amputee growing back a limb, Stevie Wonder gaining sight, that kind of thing. The sort of stuff Jesus and others used to pull out of a hat 2000 years ago. Benny Hinn still does, even though he's been outed as a fraudster! Ever wonder why the number of miracles has decreased in line with our ability to spot fakes? Why the Roman Catholic church is reduced to claiming "miracles" like the ridiculous garbage they are supporting the beatification of that old hag Theresa with?
