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No ad hominem please, we're skeptics (Dylan investigates further)

Undesired Walrus

Penultimate Amazing
Undesired Walrus
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Apologies if this has already come up...

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=10367

Dylan Avery said:
you want a bonafide mystery? figure out what caused this damage:

fireFROMABOVEWTCaftermath.jpg

fireHUGEFROMABOVEWTCaftermathcropt.jpg



check all the aerial photos (especially the HUGE hi-res ones), and you will see this is the ONLY building showing this weird smoke damage. the smoke seems to have been exhausted from the buidlings ventilation/heating system. and there is no trace of a fire on the rooftop. so somehwere in that building, a fairly substantial fire was burning, possibly in a boiler room or heating/cooling ducts, and to this day it has never been made public.



I think killian sums it up quite well.
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...post&p=13086072

If skeptics could respond to this with rational, well thought-out explanations as opposed to personal attacks and ad hominem, it would appreciated.
Click to expand...




Mystery? Or soot?
 
It's quite obviously soot from the exhaust vents.

Man, the truthers are getting desperate.

-Gumboot
 
No need to ad-hom Dylan with that post, he does it himself. It's obviously soot/dust blown out of the vents.

Next up: Dylan tries to figure out the source of the mysterious odor in an outhouse.
 
It's not even about finding "evidence" to confirm their silly theories anymore- it's just about finding things that are odd, to them.

I have some psycho crazy guy stalking me and threatening harm upon me- claiming that there's NBC footage showing the Pentagon still intact with the "Live" overlay on it a few minutes after it had collapsed. To him, this is evidence of a cover-up... or something, he really can't quite say what it is.

I went and looked at the original footage- what happened was 30 seconds earlier- the broadcaster had announced that the Pentagon had collapsed, they showed footage of this and for some reason (assuming technical difficulties) cut to the previous footage and mistakenly left the "Live" overlay up. It was only a few seconds that this occurred. I explained this to him- and it made absolutely no difference. Whether it was a mistake or not, he was just satisfied knowing that he had found some kind of inconsistency. In his mind this... proves something... not even sure what- pretty sure he isn't, either.

He now trolls around the Internet looking for people to buy into his non-argument... claiming that I agree with him. It makes absolutely no sense- reason doesn't even enter into the picture.

Well, this is the same guy that claims that Disney put cartoon characters in the smoke to give him the clues to indict them...

Anyway- this isn't the scientific method- this isn't research... this is just trying to poke holes and find things that are inconsistent (and ignoring the mundane explanations which usually follow from the patient and rational folk)- whether those things confirm or disprove their theory makes no difference to them (ie, "molten steel under GZ", "core left standing", etc)...
 
gumboot said:
It's quite obviously soot from the exhaust vents.

Man, the truthers are getting desperate.

-Gumboot
Click to expand...

Sure they weren't burning the FDNY's common decency (at keeping silent about their 300 mates deaths)?:( There isn't much soot there. Then again, Dylan doesn't believe they have much decency, so I reckon that is evidence enough?
 
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I know you said no ad hominem attacks... but this is just sad.
 
It would take a long time to build up that amount of soot as well. So it would probably have taken considerable effort. Black soot build-up like that suggests not fire at all but something much like a diesel engine exhaust.

My estimate is that when WTC fell down, the electrical power in the whole area was cut off, probably deliberately (New Yorkers, was this the case?). If so, this building most likely had a big diesel generator automatically started up to keep vital systems operational. And this is simply the exhaust vent result.

My first instinct would be to determine exactly what building that is. To me, it looks like a massive hotel, but it probably isn't. Anyone?
 
gumboot said:
It's 4 World Financial Center (Merrill Lynch).

-Gumboot
Click to expand...

Aha!!!!

The soot is all that remains of the hardcopy evidence that Merrill Lynch incinerated to cover up their involvement in the stock transactions that the WTC was dectroyed to cover up!
 
Zep said:
It would take a long time to build up that amount of soot as well. So it would probably have taken considerable effort. Black soot build-up like that suggests not fire at all but something much like a diesel engine exhaust.

My estimate is that when WTC fell down, the electrical power in the whole area was cut off, probably deliberately (New Yorkers, was this the case?). If so, this building most likely had a big diesel generator automatically started up to keep vital systems operational. And this is simply the exhaust vent result.

My first instinct would be to determine exactly what building that is. To me, it looks like a massive hotel, but it probably isn't. Anyone?
Click to expand...
Either that or it's just the exhaust from a large kitchen. A steakhouse or something. Mmmmm, steak...
 
Dylan said:
[...]and to this day it has never been made public.
Click to expand...

I call this the fallacy of the unasked question. It's "never been made public" because nobody with any knowledge of it has ever been asked "hey, what's this?".

They do the same thing when they say "Bush has never explained..." or such nonsense- as if Bush is to be bothered by their silly questions. They don't seem to understand that in order to have a response, you must first have a question- meaning someone with the authority to know must have been asked to respond- otherwise it's not "never been made public"- it's just never been requested.
 
LashL said:
Yes, there are some posted in that thread by e^n.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-b...enter_Images.html/cid_manhattan_pan_si_01.gbi

http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-b...mages.html/cid_manhattan_before_si_01-crp.gbi

Edit: and http://wirednewyork.com/wfc/images/wfc_observatory.jpg
Click to expand...

First two shots look to have the black soot stains while the towers are still standing. Hmmmm?

Next up for Dylan: Why do they call it a pineapple? I mean, it's neither a pine tree nor an apple! What's up with that?
 
Totovader said:
I call this the fallacy of the unasked question. It's "never been made public" because nobody with any knowledge of it has ever been asked "hey, what's this?".

They do the same thing when they say "Bush has never explained..." or such nonsense- as if Bush is to be bothered by their silly questions. They don't seem to understand that in order to have a response, you must first have a question- meaning someone with the authority to know must have been asked to respond- otherwise it's not "never been made public"- it's just never been requested.
Click to expand...



Yes I've always been annoyed by that CTer way of thinking...

"The government hasn't explained X"

The government also hasn't provided a full and complete account of why my video card died a number of weeks ago. Her Majesty's government has thoroughly failed to explain where my green washing basket is, which went missing a week ago.

And so forth...

-Gumboot
 
this a recent google earth image
it appears to be soot from a series of back up diesel generators. Less soot in this image. 9/11 lower manhattan lost power for a long time. maybe the addtional soot was because they were in use to power emergency equipment.
 

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Totovader said:
I call this the fallacy of the unasked question. It's "never been made public" because nobody with any knowledge of it has ever been asked "hey, what's this?".

They do the same thing when they say "Bush has never explained..." or such nonsense- as if Bush is to be bothered by their silly questions. They don't seem to understand that in order to have a response, you must first have a question- meaning someone with the authority to know must have been asked to respond- otherwise it's not "never been made public"- it's just never been requested.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it was 'killian' who said that 'hasn't been made public' claim.

However, to be perfectly unfair, Dylan Avery, after half a decade of investigating a massive event effecting millions of people the world over, gaining an enormous amount of wealth from footage he stole from the Naudet brothers and a fascist newspaper, accusing a grieving father of killing his son, relies on his invisionfree message board to find something fishy about the way burning stuff comes out the top of buildings.

Oh wait.. that was perfectly fair.. give me a while and I'll think of something unfair to do with Dylan....

Sorry Avery, was that too 'ad hom'? Or just that wonderful thing, 'the truth'?
 
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