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The 2 handcuffed students were not released at the scene, they were driven to the back of the school by request of the principal. The only possible reason I can think for doing this is to scare the other students into thinking this behavior of praying will not be tolerated. If someone can think of another reason why this was done, let me know.

If that's the only reason you can think of your brain is either so warped by conspiracy minded thinking that you can't get out of your self constructed box, or your a total idiot. Though, to be fair, if someone else can think of another possibility, let me know.

They were being removed from the area where they were causing a disruption to another area where they wouldn't make a scene. -- that took me about 10 seconds of cogent thought to come up with.

You might try it some time...
 
They were being removed from the area where they were causing a disruption to another area where they wouldn't make a scene. -- that took me about 10 seconds of cogent thought to come up with.

Why is 2 students standing by each other (praying) causing a disruption. And do you think seeing their friends and schoolmates being driven off in a police car might have caused fear in the other students (not to mention the fear Misty and her handcuffed prayer partner certainly felt).
 
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How do you know they weren't being disruptive? Do you have a copy of the police report or a statement from the principle? You're still relying on 2nd and 3rd hand hyperbole by activists with an agenda rather than providing any evidence that they we were detained for anything other than a) being disruptive or b) a heavy-handed mistake by the school.

And I would hope it caused fear in those students (if indeed events played out as the activists would have us believe) so they'd learn a lesson about not being disruptive on school property (if indeed that's what happened). Unlike you, however, I'm not going to engage in idle speculation or wishful thinking. I only deal with the facts on the ground, not emotional responses to hyperbole or boogie men created by activists.

And btw, it's been a week now, did you ever contact the ACLJ and ask them for cases/examples of the littany that Sekulow listed in his congressional testimony? Did you ever gather details for:

1 instance of students being prevented from praying or being subjected to discipline for praying

1 instance in which students were disciplined or corrected for bringing a bible or a religious book with them to school or reading their bibles or religious books on campus

1 instance of students disciplined for, or barred from, sharing religious writings with students

1 instance of school officials barring the formation of student-led bible clubs or prayer groups, or denying such groups equal access in accord with federal law

1 instance of students being denied a grade or being required to redo an assignment because of the inclusion of religious content in their work

1 instance of restricting or prohibiting the wearing of shirts, clothing or jewelry bearing religious messages

1 instance of students or student groups being denied the opportunity to participate in music or talent shows because of religious content in their performances

We don't need all 15 or 40 or 130, just one of each of these situations will be fine. Any chance you'll actually do some homework instead of deflecting, asking loaded questions or ignoring requests for evidence this time?
 
A List of Things that Ought Not Happen to Children:

Children ought not be briefly detained by police for voluntarily praying in a public school.

They also ought not be kidnapped by Baptist ministers and turned into domestic sex slaves.

Children ought not be prevented from voluntarily praying in a public school.

They also ought not be denied prompt emergency medical care because of religious beliefs when their lives are in danger.

Children ought not to be scared by the police, just for voluntarily praying in a public school.

They also ought not be forced into begging and heavy labor, denied food, sexually abused, and beaten with horse strops (wide, thick straps of leather).

Children ought never to be denied their right to pray at school.

They also ought never be afraid that their parish priest is a serial child molester or rapist, and know they are next.

I dunno, Doc. Somehow I think my list of "ought nots" are going to maybe do a wee bit more harm to children than your list.
 
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Speaking as one who's been mostly lurking in this thread since it opened, but who's read every posting:

Would anyone who still takes DOC's postings with even the faintest scintilla of seriousness please post and let it be known?
 
You know, I never meant to kill the thread. :(

But I wonder if DOC will note this twenty-four hours of ECHOINGinginginging SILENCElencelencelence.
 
But I wonder if DOC will note this twenty-four hours of ECHOINGinginginging SILENCElencelencelence.

Methinks DOC is busy with working on the tags of this thread instead of posting. He tries to ensure that his drivel can easily be found in the intertubes.

Edith says, the pixies have fixed the countless and long tags of this thread meanwhile.
 
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UnrepentantSinner said:
How do you know they {students} weren't being disruptive? Do you have a copy of the police report or a statement from the principle?


Well Congressional testimony said the students prayers (for the school, the students, and the administrators) was peaceful. Testimony also said the event was videotaped and that school officials apologized and the police paid several thousand dollars in reparations. If the students were indeed being disruptive and not peaceful (as congressional testimony stated) why apologize, why pay thousands of dollars. The evidence clearly shows the students were peaceful and weren't doing anything wrong.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
1 instance of students being prevented from praying or being subjected to discipline for praying

1 instance in which students were disciplined or corrected for bringing a bible or a religious book with them to school or reading their bibles or religious books on campus

1 instance of students disciplined for, or barred from, sharing religious writings with students

1 instance of school officials barring the formation of student-led bible clubs or prayer groups, or denying such groups equal access in accord with federal law

1 instance of students being denied a grade or being required to redo an assignment because of the inclusion of religious content in their work

1 instance of restricting or prohibiting the wearing of shirts, clothing or jewelry bearing religious messages

1 instance of students or student groups being denied the opportunity to participate in music or talent shows because of religious content in their performances

We don't need all 15 or 40 or 130, just one of each of these situations will be fine. Any chance you'll actually do some homework instead of deflecting, asking loaded questions or ignoring requests for evidence this time?


Just for the record UnrepentantSinner added the number 1 in front of the all the words (instance) above, which misquoted my original posting.

Congressional testimony by lawyers who can disbarred and have their life's work destroyed for lying to Congress is good enough for me. But if your not satisfied and are really sincere in your interest, nothing is stopping you from writing the American Center of law and Justice and requesting that information.

The following is what I my original posting that UnrepentantSinner changed looked like:

"Beyond the anecdotal evidence provided by the stories of Pierre Bynum and Misty Newberry, there is other substantial evidence of a real and continuing problem over students' rights of religious freedom in the public schools. The American Center for Law and Justice, for which I work, recently surveyed its intake records for the period from July 1, 1995 through June 13, 1997, to take stock of the numbers and kinds of incidents in which students have suffered deprivation of religious liberties. That survey uncovered over 450 instances in which the religious content of student expression or activity prompted some school authority to restrict religious freedom.

Those incidents included:

20 instances of students being prevented from praying or being subjected to discipline for praying


106 instances in which students were disciplined or corrected for bringing a bible or a religious book with them to school or reading their bibles or religious books on campus

51 instances of students disciplined for, or barred from, sharing religious writings with students

130 instances of school officials barring the formation of student-led bible clubs or prayer groups, or denying such groups equal access in accord with federal law

65 instances of students being denied a grade or being required to redo an assignment because of the inclusion of religious content in their work

48 instances of restricting or prohibiting the wearing of shirts, clothing or jewelry bearing religious messages

48 instances of students or student groups being denied the opportunity to participate in music or talent shows because of religious content in their performances

This summary of incidents suggests strongly that public school officials and their attorneys have forgotten something that the Congress well knew at the time of its adoption of the Northwest Ordinance. In the Ordinance, the Congress stated that ''[r]eligion, morality, and knowledge'' were ''necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind,'' and that the diffusion of ''[r]eligion, morality, and knowledge'' are intimately linked with ''schools and the means of education.''

From a Congressional Hearing (Jay Seculow speaking)

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees...u57840_0.HTM#0
 
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Yes, its good to know that students can have after hour bible clubs and prayer groups in public schools but I also just read that public school teachers can also participate in the after hour bible clubs if they wish to. Its good to know that are rights are being protected.

http://www.aclj.org/Search/?sc=Bible clubs
see Bible Club victory in Utah

from the American Center for Law and Justice website.
 
Well Congressional testimony said the students prayers (for the school, the students, and the administrators) was peaceful. Testimony also said the event was videotaped and that school officials apologized and the police paid several thousand dollars in reparations. If the students were indeed being disruptive and not peaceful (as congressional testimony stated) why apologize, why pay thousands of dollars. The evidence clearly shows the students were peaceful and weren't doing anything wrong.

You seem to be confused that the first phrase I've bolded does not mean the same as the second phrase I've bolded.

Are you going actually contact the ACLJ and get actual evidence or are you going to continue to repeat yourself and say nothing?
 
Just for the record UnrepentantSinner added the number 1 in front of the all the words (instance) above, which misquoted my original posting.

My God man. I've been trying to give you the benifit of the doubt that you're merely obstinate, but I'm growing more convinced you're either stupid or mentally challenged.

Everyone who actually reads this thread knows that the little button at the end of "quote=whoever" links back to the original post. Did you really think people reading here didn't know that, or that they didn't notice where I asked you specifically for 1 example of the occurances listed instead of the supposed 10 or 20 or 130 or whatever numbers Sekulow claimed? Do you really think people involved in this thread needed you to repost the original in it's entirety again and wouldn't notice that you didn't do what I asked for?

Do you have some sort of reading comprehension problem or did you suffer some traumatic brain injury? I need to know so I can know what I'm dealing with here.
 
Methinks DOC is busy with working on the tags of this thread instead of posting. He tries to ensure that his drivel can easily be found in the intertubes.

Edith says, the pixies have fixed the countless and long tags of this thread meanwhile.

Obviously, HRH DOC was not pleased with the pixies and decided to add the tags again.

DOC, don't you think your wild choice of tags is rather misleading regarding the actual content of this thread? The tags are NOT a feature of this forum for spreading your opinion in_three_word sentences. "praying students handcuffed" - "washington wanted chaplains" - blah blah blah.
 
Obviously, HRH DOC was not pleased with the pixies and decided to add the tags again.

DOC, don't you think your wild choice of tags is rather misleading regarding the actual content of this thread? The tags are NOT a feature of this forum for spreading your opinion in_three_word sentences. "praying students handcuffed" - "washington wanted chaplains" - blah blah blah.

Considering the tags now have nothing to do with the OP of this thread, I'd say his playing with the tags is a bit dishonest.
 
[tagger mode]
DOC,
the tags are to aid in searching for threads, not for commentary. Tagging guidelines can be found here. Please refrain from adding in spurious tags as it just clutters the place up
[/tagger mode]
 
[tagger mode]
DOC,
the tags are to aid in searching for threads, not for commentary. Tagging guidelines can be found here. Please refrain from adding in spurious tags as it just clutters the place up
[/tagger mode]

Yes, I just read the Randi guidelines for tags and it says this:

"The simplest way to use tags is to describe a thread’s subject. However you are not limited to that for example you could use tags to tag any locations, names, people, places or ideas in a thread -- pretty much anything you can think of."

If the above is true then I don't understand why my tags keep getting erased.

For Example when I tag "Lincolns second inaugural" or "Ben Franklins letter" or "Benjamin Rush letter" (where Jefferson claims he is a Christian) -- all important subjects we've talked about.

Well, if my tags keep getting erased I guess there's nothing I can do about it.
 
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Obviously, HRH DOC was not pleased with the pixies and decided to add the tags again.

DOC, don't you think your wild choice of tags is rather misleading regarding the actual content of this thread? The tags are NOT a feature of this forum for spreading your opinion in_three_word sentences. "praying students handcuffed" - "washington wanted chaplains" - blah blah blah.

But Washington did want chaplains and according to Newsweek (as I've already metioned in this post) he wrote it in 50 letters saying so. That's not my opinion that's a fact. And praying students were handcuffed. That's not my opinion that's a fact.
 
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