According to Federal Authorities, Rocky told them he was working on the sprinkler system. Do you expect a work order to survive the damage and destruction ?[\quote]
I have yet to read a first person quote from Rocky HIMSELF saying he was working on the sprinkler system. By the way, Rocky is not a licensed plumber in NYC and neither is "Magic Heating and Plumbing".
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/LicenseTypeServlet?vlfirst=Y
As for the work order, I meant the work order at the plumber's office.
So to fit Hammad into your crazy 9/11 plot we would have to believe:
1. Hammad, who was not a licensed plumber, conned professional police officers to gain access to the basement of the WTC, or perhaps someone "in on it" in the PAPD let him in.
2. For several days he plants bombs in the basement. No one notices him, the bombs or the fact he wasn't doing any plumbing.
3. Instead of laying low after 9/11, he and four buddies travel to Memphis to get fraudlent Tennessee driver's licenses from DMV employee Kathleen Smith.
4. He keeps the incriminating WTC pass in his wallet for
5 months, until his arrest in February 2002 on the driver's license charge.
5. A few days later Kathleen Smith is murdered.
You only accept first person statements from criminals as fact? Ok. Your prerogative I suppose. Why you would accept a criminals statement over the AP reporter's statements, court documents, and Federal Agents is beyond me.
Source 1-AP
First, I'm sorry you do not accept multiple press reporter's statements, Federal Agent's statements, and court documents as more credible than a first person statement from a criminal. In other words, if Rocky isn't quoted directly in a press report, then it isn't true?
1. Where do you arrive at the suggestion that he "conned" police? A photocopy of the pass he had looked authentic to authorities. It could have been manufactured or provided to him by an insider. He was getting fake driver licenses from an American, the hijackers got fake ID's here in America so that isn't a stretch.
Denko Mechanical has also been mentioned as a place of employment along with Magic Plumbing, for Rocky. Denko is a bit bizarre especially in its relationship to WTC, which is no relationship. We are still left to wonder who Rocky was working for as the records were destroyed.
2. According to the AP report, Rocky and his cousin were working on sprinklers in the tower. You state they planted bombs, but at this point the method of delivery and type of device is debatable.
3. Why would you "lay low" in the city you just helped to attack? That would be the best time to get out of dodge as all attention is focused on the aftermath of the attacks. Here is a catch though, the Feds got a "tip" that they were leaving for Memphis that day, either Sept. 11th or Feb. 5th. depending on what day the author is referring to. Interesting though that he bolts town the same day of the attacks especially when you had been working there a few days before. Also in the above article, the Fed's were tipped off that they were heading to Memphis.
4. Sorry, I can't speak to his wallet cleaning habits or lack thereof. Hell, hijackers carried their passports and letters onto the planes to be found later on the street.
5. Smith is murdered after providing "half a dozen cousins" with ID's and only until those busted in Tenn. are caught. Many of the hijackers obtained fake id's in the country. Seems rather odd to kill someone for testifying against you in a fake ID trial. Unless of course there she knew something more about these guys and they didn't want the information out.
6. Rocky's defense lawyer tries to claim the prosecution is trying to make a 9/11 connection! Now either the defense is lying about this, or there is a connection to be made. The connection of course falls right in line with this proposed theory.
Finally, Rocky, his friends and his cousin and/or cousins, could have been a separate Al-Q. cell that was tasked with infiltrating and delivering the explosive device or devices in the basement levels and perhaps elsewhere. The risk factor is not even relevant as the terrorists are willing to give their lives in the case. He has the access to the sub levels that even photocopy of the ID looks official to the authorities. He has at least one 'relative' along with him, who knows how many other helpers he had. So far the theory to this point is plausible and matches the explosive device in the basement.
Gravy- Oh where do I start. Lets start with the smoke that you say is white, but is actually various shades of gray. The background of this reply box that I'm typing in is white.
1. Oh and did you fail to include the contents of the buildings like walls, floors, sheet rock, etc in that "white" smoke cloud of yours that is supposedly jetfuelA vapor?
2. Also your whole example is a lesson in argument fallacies, in this case a false analogy. Do I need to explain why?
You expertly ignored the other point that kerosene and jetfuelA do not have the same chemical composition, as JetfuelA has additives placed into it to modify its chemical properties.
If he doubts Arturo Griffith's account, he should contact him. We know that William Rodriguez won't.
I don't doubt Arturo's account. I doubt your account of Arturo.
Will you contact Arturo Griffith, Swing? Yes or no?
How about Marlene Cruz? If you think it was a different female carpenter in the #50 freight elevator, and that Marlene Cruz was in a different freight elevator with a different operator that came to a stop at the same level, will you contact her?
Actually the burden of proof is upon your shoulders as you seem to be the only source that places the two together in the elevator. I have no need to contact Arturo or Marlene.
3. So will you contact them to confirm as fact what you state is fact in your paper? Will you Gravy?
The Port Authority Police Department was in charge of security at the WTC, not some "guards".
Swing mistakenly claims that the WTC was guarded by Port Authority Police alone. The security guards at booths, at turnstile checkpoints, and at various points in the towers were not Port Authority Police. The PAPD patrolled separately.
Perhaps you should read all of the comments. I did not make this statement,
ALT-F4 made this statement on 29th May 2007 05:15 PM. I didn't place it in the quote box as I should have, but you can read a few comments below where he makes this inaccurate statement. Thank you for correcting him, or maybe he should thank you for correcting him.
4. Gravy, will you be explaining to ALT-F4 why he is wrong?
Gravy, One other issue with your paper at this point:
5. Why do you feel the need to insert your own interpretation of the facts into the eyewitness accounts, especially Mike P.'s account?
6. Why can't you let the reader read the account and decide for themselves?
7. Are interpretations needed to support the fireball?
8. That is manipulative and misleading don't you think?
CHF-We all realize that you can't tell when you argument is shredded, so I'm not surprised.
ROFLMAOAU! Most of the folks on here didn't even read my lengthy post. And so far, I've learned that kerosene vapor is white in smoke machines and takes a set criteria of scientific data to produce, however, the process hasn't been described as to how that took place in the basement of WTC: North Tower.
I've also learned from JREF'ers that kerosene and jetfuelA are the same thing to prove a strawman white smoke issue, yet they have different chemical properties.
1. Is that your definition of shredding, CHF?
2. Is that what it is like here,
tell me, don't show me?
I don't think you have ever seen kerosene.
Well growing up as a kid, I filled many a kerosene heaters.
Yes, kerosene is clear as well as jetfuel A unless dyed. That was in reference to fuel dumping by jets.
I should have stated jetfuel A when dumped at elevation in
liquid form is white.
According to the firemen who were in the lobby of WTC1 the smashed windows and falling marble wall panels were as a result of the building moving (which is how they knew it might collapse), not a result of the fireball.-Gumboot
Source please for the second time?
Also, will anybody be using the graphic that I posted to point to the elevator shaft that caused the damage in the lobby? Also,
Gumbot, it is not a poor representation for this case, because it shows the shafts that reached the lobby area versus the impact zone. How many shafts did you count?
