Free *beeep* Speech

[Oliver]

Oliver this is an example of what I referred to as "grass hopper" before - this does not seem in any way or shape to follow the exchanges we have just had.

You gave two examples of saying the same thing - one that you considered was "UK-English" one was "Australian-English", I made the assertion that in fact the example you provided of so called "Australian-English" would be the construct that the majority of people in the UK would use.

What I just did was claim that your claim was wrong!

No, you got that wrong - all I say is that I never recognized Americans using "..., isn't it" very much. So I hear this difference in the British way to build sentences. I have no Idea about the differences in Australia since I didn't listen to their speech very much.

_____________________________________________________________


Nevertheless, I wasn't grasshopping. You didn't understand what I was talking and you replied with this smiley:

Then I made an example to explain it and you confirmed that "It's a pretty rainy day, isn't it?" is the way the majority of people in the UK would say it.

My point is that people in America don't say: "It's a pretty rainy day, isn't it?", which lead me to the conclusion that people in the UK may be more politely within the way how they build their sentences.

Therefore I am at least a little bit right concerning the "cliche" you said it is nothing but an unfounded stereo-type. You're contradicting yourself on this point.

 

[Oliver]

Ok, I'll back up. You used the example:

"What a rainy day."-less polite

and

"It's a pretty rainy day, isn't it?-more polite

How do you make a connection between a sentence and the politeness of an entire society that probably uses variations of both? What I feel, is (as in most of the threads I have read now-going on 7 just barely past the first page) that you are again using generalized examples to put your personal tag for what you think.

From what I heard so far the English people are more politeness in the way how they express themselves in their language. That doesn't mean that Americans are less politeness - all I say is that I recognize a difference.

But don't put your feet into my mouth here: I'm not making the claim that Americans are less polite, I say they use their language more directly. That's it.

 

[Tailgater]

I would say that, your tone in how you say the sentence is more important than the actual sentence when it comes to politeness.

 

[Tailgater]

I could say, "go to hell" in a polite way. I could say, "you look nice today" in a cruel way.

 

[Darat]

No, you got that wrong - all I say is that I never recognized Americans using "..., isn't it" very much. So I hear this difference in the British way to build sentences. I have no Idea about the differences in Australia since I didn't listen to their speech very much.

Sorry for the confusion.

_____________________________________________________________


Nevertheless, I wasn't grasshopping. You didn't understand what I was talking and you replied with this smiley:

Sorry for that - I had indeed misunderstood the post I was replying to.

Then I made an example to explain it and you confirmed that "It's a pretty rainy day, isn't it?" is the way the majority of people in the UK would say it.

My point is that people in America don't say: "It's a pretty rainy day, isn't it?", which lead me to the conclusion that people in the UK may be more politely within the way how they build their sentences.

Now that I understand your point I'm afraid I'm still going to have to say you are wrong. One of your sentences would be considered more formal than the other. Now some UK people would also consider the more formal one as being the more polite - unfortunately "posh" English is still often considered (for social class reasons) to be more polite. (ETA: The more formal one is the "What a rainy day" sentence.)

Therefore I am at least a little bit right concerning the "cliche" you said it is nothing but an unfounded stereo-type. You're contradicting yourself on this point.

See above - I am not.

 

[Oliver]

I would say that, your tone in how you say the sentence is more important than the actual sentence when it comes to politeness.

That's how I use to speak in English - even if I have some problems to spell it exactly the way I would build the sentences in German.

If I have the impression that someone is rude, he gets a rude answer from me - if someone is polite, I also reply very politely. If I talk to someone in the UK, I also tend to use things like "... ,isn't it?" more often.

 

[Oliver]

Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry for that - I had indeed misunderstood the post I was replying to.

Now that I understand your point I'm afraid I'm still going to have to say you are wrong. One of your sentences would be considered more formal than the other. Now some UK people would also consider the more formal one as being the more polite - unfortunately "posh" English is still often considered (for social class reasons) to be more polite.

See above - I am not.

Oh, okay - now I understand what you meant. I have a problem to differ between "formal" english and "street-english" since I'm used to hear the formal English in the UK-Media, which is less directly then in the US from my impression.

But as I said, I don't follow the UK media as much as the US Media - so I can't make fair conclusions about the differences. Therefore I have to admit that I have to study these things to come to factual conclusions. So far my experience is solely based on what I hear and read.

 

[Darat]

From what I heard so far the English people are more politeness in the way how they express themselves in their language. That doesn't mean that Americans are less politeness - all I say is that I recognize a difference.

But don't put your feet into my mouth here: I'm not making the claim that Americans are less polite, I say they use their language more directly. That's it.

Nope - what you are repeating is your stereotype of how UK people speak rather then the actual way UK people speak. And also confusing the difference between being polite and being formal in how you speak. The two are often conflated but that is usually from snobbery.

Which to you is more polite Oliver:

"How do you do?"

"Hi, how are you?"

 

[Oliver]

Nope - what you are repeating is your stereotype of how UK people speak rather then the actual way UK people speak. And also confusing the difference between being polite and being formal in how you speak. The two are often conflated but that is usually from snobbery.

Which to you is more polite Oliver:

"How do you do?"

"Hi, how are you?"

The "Hi" implies a more lax way to ask the question - but in general I would say they're pretty much the same. The last one sounds more friendly and personal because the "Hi".

 

[Oliver]

ETA: So number one seems to be more polite in terms of neutrality and formal:

"How do you do?"

 

[Undesired Walrus]

I think you have accepted a stereotype of the UK which has never been true.

Infact, Oliver seems to not know that we can say '◊◊◊◊' any time on the BBC, regardless of the time.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

One example that comes to mind is that people in the UK often use to add "..., should I?", "..., isn't it?" "..., wouldn't it?" to soften the sentence/argument by making a question out of it.

um.....

 

[Oliver]

um.....

Um....what? But to shorten a long discussion: There are no differences between American-English and UK-English, are there?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Um....what? But to shorten a long discussion: There are no differences between American-English and UK-English, are there?

Um...yea.. but apart from 'aluminium' 'nappies' and 'pavement' among others there isn't really a massive contrast. A high majority of British youth say 'dude', 'man' and 'cool' just as America in a cliched sense does. Street slang I would guess is radically different. But in the general picture, British language is as massively diverse amongst itself than it is to an American.

 

[Darat]

ETA: So number one seems to be more polite in terms of neutrality and formal:

"How do you do?"

Yet you could also argue it is standoffish so could be considered less polite...

 

[Oliver]

Um...yea.. but apart from 'aluminium' 'nappies' and 'pavement' among others there isn't really a massive contrast. A high majority of British youth say 'dude', 'man' and 'cool' just as America in a cliched sense does. Street slang I would guess is radically different. But in the general picture, British language is as massively diverse amongst itself than it is to an American.

Well, then you might be able to answer the question if profanity and especially the F-Word is used in the UK in the same universal context and as often as in the US?

 

[Oliver]

Yet you could also argue it is standoffish so could be considered less polite...

Of course I could argue that way - but your example isn't as contrary as the example with the "weather" - which is a big difference in contrast to the small nuance in your example, isn't it?

 

[Darat]

Well, then you might be able to answer the question if profanity and especially the F-Word is used in the UK in the same universal context and as often as in the US?

Since you have stated that your opinion on the use of language in the USA is totally subjective it is pretty difficult for anyone to say whether another country would seem the same to you or not.

Of course I could argue that way - but your example isn't as contrary as the example with the "weather" - which is a big difference in contrast to the small nuance in your example, isn't it?

No.

 

[gtc]

Australian English:
"Strewth, its bloody wet out there. The flamin koalas are wetter the English cricket team."

English English:
"Ee bah goom, it be reet wet oot thar."

American English:
"Yo mofo, its rainin.'"

 

[MortFurd]

Um....what? But to shorten a long discussion: There are no differences between American-English and UK-English, are there?

There are enormous differences. There are many words used in each language that have a different meaning in the other. There are also words that only exist in one or the other.

A few examples:
1. Fanny.
In American English it is commonly used to mean "your back side, the buttocks." It is also used as a nickname for women named Francine. In UK English (I'm told) it is used to refer to the primary female sex organ. No doubt it gives "fanny pack" a new dimension. Fanny wore a fanny-pack over her fanny.

2. Chips.
In American English, these would be thin-sliced, crispy fried slices of potatoes - commonly sold pre-packaged in bags. In the UK, "Chips" would be more like what Americans call french fries - known in Germany as "Pommes Frites."

3. Wanker.
Known to (some) Americans, but primarily a UK English expression. An American would probably use the term "Jack-off." That's "Wichser" for those interested in the German expression.

There are differences in the two that go much further than that. The choice of prepositions is different between the two langauges, and commonly used expressions are different as well.

I've known Americans (military) who have been stationed all over the world. They all tell me that misunderstandings between Americans and British are more common and worse than misunderstandings with people in other countries.

The American and the Brit will both assume they are speaking the same language and communicate blithely past one another (or insult one another inadvertently,) whereas if both (an American and a German, for example) know that they speak a different language they are more likely to double check meanings and to be more forgiving of errors.