architects and engineers for truth, population 1

[ref]

They did.

-Gumboot

Damn you're fast. I corrected that one already

 

[Architect]

Countless others are Civil Engineers, which is one of the possible degrees for Land Surveyors, right? (Right.)

LOL, tea over the monitor.

Do you actually know anything about ICE and IStructE, overlap in education and specialisms?

 

[chipmunk stew]

All that hype and no structural engineers.

There is one listed amongst the Architects.

Of course, all these credentials have been verified....Right?

Well, this person is listed in the Architechts (licensed) section. *shrug*

Haluk Akol is licensed in CA as both a Civil Engineer (License #8456) and a Structural Engineer (License #749):
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/wllqryna$lcev2.startup?p_qte_code=ENG&p_qte_pgm_code=7500

 

[T.A.M.]

I see a few of the truthers are all excited about this group of architects for "Da truth". The funny thing is you can put together any group of professionals, and label them as for the truth, and many of them may believe "da truth", but unless their qualifications are relevent and they can use them in an analysis of the issues(ie put out a paper on what you think happened on 9/11, backed by elements of your expertese), they are just ordinary guys like you and I but with a wrong view on things.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

I can see I am gonna have to post a link to the list of qualified CIVIL and STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS who have actually put out REAL, PEER REVIEWED (by engineering experts, not 9/11 loons) PAPERS on 9/11 that support the official story. It is a long list, and the link is here somewhere. IF someone doesnt link to it here in the next little while, than when I get to my home comp I will copy and paste it yet again...

TAM

 

[Mobyseven]

How do you suggest they verify their identities or credentials? Better yet- how do you typically verify the credentials of your trusted experts in this forum?

Some, like R. Mackey, can be easily verified. Some, like TAM, prefer not to release personal information but have given information to the administrators and had them independantly verify the qualifications. Some don't give a hooey, mostly because their posts speak for themselves.

How is that for an answer?

 

[Hokulele]

Countless others are Civil Engineers, which is one of the possible degrees for Land Surveyors, right? (Right.)

Wrong. Although a Professional Land Surveyor (PLS) can have a degree in engineering, it is not required. Some jurisdictions only require a high school diploma, and a certain number of years of experience. What is generally required is the passing of two different tests, administered at two different times. For more information on the licensing process in the US, you can click here. This website also offers links to the various state agencies that handle licensing, and contact information if you need to verify the status of a person's license.

 

[Kent1]

Just reading the WTC7 part of the website shows how profoundly stupid they are.

http://ae911truth.org/wtc7.php

Its like a spot the errors game.
"This is the only photo evidence of fires in Building 7."

Missing steel "last seen 2002."

They even have the "alive and well hijackers" claim

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

How do you suggest they verify their identities or credentials?

Licenses are a matter of public record.

Better yet- how do you typically verify the credentials of your trusted experts in this forum?

Few, if any, arguments put forth on this forum make use of valid appeals to authority. What is presented is verifiable by anyone.

1. You don't verify the credentials of any "friendlies" here in this forum in a way that would be acceptable for a "non-friendly" to verify their own credentials (i.e., a double standard).

No, it's not a double-standard, as the creditials of this forum's members are not being used to bolster the arguments made.

2. Regardless of how they attempt to verify their credentials, someone will suggest that whatever they've provided could be "easily" faked, or cast some other doubt, and their credentials will be dismissed & laughed at.

Strawman.

For the person (or people) who claim that what they're doing is an "appeal to authority", it looks like NIST is in the same boat. Richard W. Bukowski, a member of the 9/11 investigation team, has a BS in Electrical Engineering. Another member has several Chemistry degrees. Countless others are Civil Engineers, which is one of the possible degrees for Land Surveyors, right? (Right.)

There are two kinds of appeals to authority, valid ones, and logically fallacious ones. Additionally, that NIST is listing the professions/education-level of people involved is a matter of course and their presentation does not depend solely on their credentials to withstand scrutiny.

Additionally, even if he was a Sandwich Engineer for Subway, how exactly are they appealing to authority? The site is called "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth",

Which means they are using their (claimed) credentials in an attempt to bolster their case.

and they're calling on congress for an independent investigation.

Who would make up an "independent investigation"?

As long as they're really all Engineers or Architects, I'm not sure how you can argue that they're appealing to authority as a group.

Because they are.

I came here because I was curious how you guys would discredit this latest organization, and unsurprisingly, your criticism is still full of blatant double-standards

Which you acusation has been shown to fail under scrutiny.

, confirmation bias, and selective perception.

Specific example?

If I took your approach to "debunking", there really aren't too many things I couldn't debunk, because it's not hard to find some doubt in just about anything --

Strawman used as an ad hom.

just as you guys do with anything related to 9/11 that doesn't support your opinion. Until you hold yourselves to the same standards you demand from others, it's pointless to even discuss this with any of you.

:

 

[Horatius]

I wonder what Mr Gage's thoughts would be on how to design two 110 storey steel framed buildings to withstand the impact of commercial aircraft travelling at full whack, AND the subsequent fires.

"Build it exactly like the WTC towers were built, but put a sign on the door saying, "No explosives allowed. This means YOU!""

If they're right, that should about cover it.

 

[CptColumbo]

I see a few of the truthers are all excited about this group of architects for "Da truth". The funny thing is you can put together any group of professionals, and label them as for the truth, and many of them may believe "da truth", but unless their qualifications are relevent and they can use them in an analysis of the issues(ie put out a paper on what you think happened on 9/11, backed by elements of your expertese), they are just ordinary guys like you and I but with a wrong view on things.

TAM

I'm going to start a "Figure Skaters for Truth" site or a "Cable TV Installers for the Truth" (they will meet sometime between 9am and 4 pm on Monday).

 

[Brainster]

They list another structural engineer among their members:

Dr. Michael Voschine, PhD., Structural Engineer
Miami, Florida

Now here's the odd part. I Googled voschine, and the only place that word is mentioned on the web is in a post over at Alex Floum's George Washington blog, and a mirror of that post, where Alex talks about how great it is that they've got these structural engineers in the AE911 Denial group. That's it. No Voschine in the White Pages in Miami. I find it amazing that anybody, especially a degreed professional, in this day could leave no trace of his existence on the web.

 

[Architect]

Isn't it interesting that we don't see any of the normal qualifications which we would expect for a StructE, for example institute membership.

[sigh]

 

[chipmunk stew]

They list another structural engineer among their members:



Now here's the odd part. I Googled voschine, and the only place that word is mentioned on the web is in a post over at Alex Floum's George Washington blog, and a mirror of that post, where Alex talks about how great it is that they've got these structural engineers in the AE911 Denial group. That's it. No Voschine in the White Pages in Miami. I find it amazing that anybody, especially a degreed professional, in this day could leave no trace of his existence on the web.

He's not licensed in Florida:
http://www.fbpe.org/

 

[T.A.M.]

What about this guy...

Dr. I. M. Apocryphal
PhD in Mendacious Studies
University of Ersatz

TAM

 

[Mobyseven]

What about this guy...

Dr. I. M. Apocryphal
PhD in Mendacious Studies
University of Ersatz

TAM

He lectured me in first year Makshizup Studies!

 

[babazaroni]

After I posted this at ae911truth:

I'm referring to Part 1 of the Sonoma State presentation.

It is about 3/4 of the way into the video where Gage says 'You know you heard the pops of the building', then shows the video of the South Tower collapsing and the emergency personnel running.

The audio has been overlayed with classic demolition sounds.

Here is the faked version that Gage used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS8Wf0mtP4w

Here is the original:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGI33HsiCc

And a high quality original from a CT site:

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc2_south_below.mpg

It is astounding to me that someone like Gage could be taken in by this fakery. If this video were correct, there would be no question at all that the towers were CD'd.

Please explain.

28th Kingdom replied:

Yer lying... nothing is faked... it's all real. You lie... You are a liar... you just lie and lie some more... yer just making stuff up.

Good old 28K. And he thought he could rock our world a few months ago.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I'm sure you have already, but get him to explain the different audios.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Isn't it interesting that we don't see any of the normal qualifications which we would expect for a StructE, for example institute membership.

[sigh]

Interesting to note perhaps, but not critical. Some years back, I looked into joining the Amer. Soc. of Safety Engineers and found out I could be "grandfathered" in with a degree and >15? yrs experience. I'm sure I could have put other letters behind my name, but it wasn't going to put money in my pocket, so I never bothered.

I'm more interested in what they say, and what they publish for peer review regarding 9/11, and how well they defend their publications.

 

[Gravy]

A breathtaking collection of idiots has gathered there: Pdoherty, roxdog, Chucksheen, Ace Baker, 28th Kingdom.

Here are two consecutive posts by 28th Kingdom, in full:

I just got banned from the LooseChange Forum... because I refused to accept the censorship of my free speech...

Let's be honest... censorship is a form of tyranny... so, please don't try and rationalize it... by saying you know what's best for us. Really now... do you know what that sounds like?

Alan Davery... is a confirmed troll - they should be removed... although I must note - if you ban people... you should block their IP, because they can easily create a new account.

http://ae911truth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20