Libertarian Hero Ron Paul Blames US for 9/11

[Skibum]

Seriously: How old are you?

You do realize that the Region was stable before some A**holes decided to intervene preemptively, don't you?

You do realize that Saddam was no threat and had nothing to do with Al Qaida, don't you?

You do realize that 3000 American soldiers died for nothing, don't you?

You do realize that the plan to invade Iraq was already planned long before 9/11 actually happened, don't you?

So you can't answer the question and want to change topics?


Your claim

the US kills 1000 per month in Iraq.

Now prove it.

So before we're splitting hair by hair any further, because your knowledge or blind patriotism lacks: How old are you?

Nice personal attack.

 

[mr rosewater]

You do realize that the Region was stable before some A**holes decided to intervene preemptively, don't you?

You do realize that Saddam was no threat and had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, don't you?

Saddam waged two wars against his neighbors so he was indeed a threat to his neighbors and his own people.

 

[Pardalis]

The Middle East, stable?

 

[Oliver]

So you can't answer the question and want to change topics?

Your claim

Now prove it.

I'm pretty tired but the discussion with you is getting boring because you're either a pretty young, naive person or ignorant.

But to answer your question:
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

According to their numbers there are estimations about 70,000 dead civilians as result of the invasion of Iraq and who died in military interventions.

70,000 : (4*12) = 1458,33 Civilian Casualties per Month

Please note:

"Because it relies on deaths reported by the media, it suggests its figures are an underestimate as "many if not most civilian casualties will go unreported".


And you can twist it as long as you wish: This is a direct result of US foreign policies and I'm sure it will fire back one day - to get back to the Issue of this Thread.

 

[Oliver]

The Middle East, stable?

Nope, I was talking about Iraq - But yes, the Middle East was pretty stable in contrast to the current situation.

 

[Skibum]

I'm pretty tired but the discussion with you is getting boring because you're either a pretty young, naive person or ignorant.

But to answer your question:
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

According to their numbers there are estimations about 70,000 dead civilians as result of the invasion of Iraq and who died in military interventions.

70,000 : (4*12) = 1458,33 Civilian Casualties per Month

Please note:

"Because it relies on deaths reported by the media, it suggests its figures are an underestimate as "many if not most civilian casualties will go unreported".


And you can twist it as long as you wish: This is a direct result of US foreign policies and I'm sure it will fire back one day - to get back to the Issue of this Thread.

Try again...

The count includes civilian deaths caused by coalition military action and by military or paramilitary responses to the coalition presence (e.g. insurgent and terrorist attacks). It also includes excess civilian deaths caused by criminal action resulting from the breakdown in law and order which followed the coalition invasion.

Just look at the first page, most of those are obviously not killed by US forces.

Please stop with the personal attacks.

 

[Oliver]

Saddam waged two wars against his neighbors so he was indeed a threat to his neighbors and his own people.

Oh my God, Muslims killed Muslims. I'm pretty sure you, Pardalis and Skibum are crying Rivers because of that. Saddam killed these people with the knowledge of the US Government - which supported Saddam nevertheless with ingredients for WMD's:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A13558-2003Dec18&notFound=true

Why don't you take the time and read the whole thread. It's kinda stupid to discuss this again.

 

[Oliver]

Try again...

Just look at the first page, most of those are obviously not killed by US forces.

Please stop with the personal attacks.

Nope, it's a waste of time to argue with you because you have no idea about nearly everything you said so far. No own point of view at all.

ETA: Are you Pardalis Sock-Puppet???

 

[Pardalis]

Oh my God, Muslims killed Muslims. I'm pretty sure you, Pardalis and Skibum are crying Rivers because of that.

Strawman

The hell with you, Oliver.

 

[Skibum]

Oh my God, Muslims killed Muslims. I'm pretty sure you, Pardalis and Skibum are crying Rivers because of that.

Nice of you to assume how I feel. The only thing I've been doing here is trying to get you to present proof of some of your claims and to counter a few of your points that I felt were wrong.

For some reason you've now resorted to making it personal.

 

[Oliver]

Strawman

Screw you Oliver.

Hey, you Guys don't care about the people who are dying in the Iraq war right now because an unjustified war that had nothing to do with 9/11.

So you are telling me that you care about the deaths of these people decades ago?

Sorry, I don't buy this false empathy.

 

[Skibum]

Nope, it's a waste of time to argue with you because you have no idea about nearly everything you said so far. No own point of view at all.

ETA: Are you Pardalis Sock-Puppet???

Too bad, I was kinda in your corner til you started with all the false claims and biased attacks.

No, I'm not Pards sock puppet.

 

[Pardalis]

Hey, you Guys don't care about the people who are dying in the Iraq war right now because an unjustified war that had nothing to do with 9/11.

Don't you get that this thread ISN'T about the war in Iraq?

I agree with you about the war in Iraq being wrong, but this thread is about 9/11 and the US's responsibility (or not) for it.

STICK TO THE FREAKING TOPIC AND STOP PRETENDING YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK.

So you are telling me that you care about the deaths of these people decades ago?

Do you?

 

[Oliver]

Too bad, I was kinda in your corner til you started with all the false claims and biased attacks.

No, I'm not Pards sock puppet.

What false claim?

America invaded Iraq = XXX,XXX civilian casualties
America didn't invade Iraq = XX civilian casualties

Do you see the difference? Why the heck is America in Iraq if not for stirring up the whole middle-east?

Of course you can argue: "But, but, but .... 9/11 ... 3000 innocent people."
And I will tell you that 9/11 had nothing to do with IRAQ. And I am right about it. And I know it hurts - but it hurts people living down there much more than you.

And the War creates more Blowbacks, more hate, more Jihadists, more deaths. But instead arguing about this issue, you all are sidestepping within the last hours. Why is that? Afraid? Uncomfortable?

 

[mr rosewater]

Oh my God, Muslims killed Muslims. I'm pretty sure you, Pardalis and Skibum are crying Rivers because of that. Saddam killed these people with the knowledge of the US Government - which supported Saddam nevertheless with ingredients for WMD's:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A13558-2003Dec18&notFound=true

Quote:
According Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and China. By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.


Your right why continue WildCat gave you evidence of who sold Saddam the chemicals you really don't care you just wish to bash the U.S.. Same thing with concern for intervention in the Sudan you bash the U.S. for no interest(no oil) but your own government will nothing. If the U.S. doesn't do it who will. You really should learn to like the U.S. your free today because of us.

 

[Pardalis]

And I will tell you that 9/11 had nothing to do with IRAQ. And I am right about it.

Yes, you're such a genius for figuring that out.

 

[Oliver]

Don't you get that this thread ISN'T about the war in Iraq?

I agree with you about the war in Iraq being wrong, but this thread is about 9/11 and the US's responsibility (or not) for it.

STICK TO THE FREAKING TOPIC AND STOP PRETENDING YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK.

Do you?

Seriously? No, it's too long ago and I don't remember that I was aware of it during the time when it happened. I have empathy with people who suffer right now.

I know that this thread is somehow meant to claim that Ron Paul blames the US for 9/11. But he didn't say that. So what is this thread about anyway? I'm still talking about blow-backs - and so did Ron Paul. Why is this off-topic since the 9/11 question was answered on the first page?

Or what shall we talk about instead? You could reveal your Forename, for example.

ETA: Thank you, Pardalis.

 

[Pardalis]

Seriously? No, it's too long ago and I don't remember that I was aware of it during the time when it happened.

So why the strawman? Why did you imply that I was a heartless bigot?

Do you realize how insulting you can be?

(btw I apologize for the uncivil remark)

I have empathy with people who suffer right now.

Who doesn't?

 

[Oliver]

Quote:
According Iraq's report to the UN, the know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained from firms in such countries as: the United States West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and China. By far, the largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.

Your right why continue WildCat gave you evidence of who sold Saddam the chemicals you really don't care you just wish to bash the U.S.. Same thing with concern for intervention in the Sudan you bash the U.S. for no interest(no oil) but your own government will nothing. If the U.S. doesn't do it who will. You really should learn to like the U.S. your free today because of us.

Read on, I already addressed all of these issues.

 

[WildCat]

What false claim?

America invaded Iraq = XXX,XXX civilian casualties
America didn't invade Iraq = XX civilian casualties

Then this claim has to be false:

Oh, come on, Pardalis. What did the estimated 1,000,000 innocent arabs do to the US who died during wars and embargos before 9/11? I don't buy this selfish, ignorant argument from people who only whine about themselves anymore - instead seeing the world the way it is. The US caused many times more deaths than all violent american deaths together.

So which is it Oliver - 100,000 civilian deaths a year without the invasion or less than 100? Or do you just use whatever figure makes the US look worse?