Was Joseph Stalin an atheist?

[Questioninggeller]

Recently I saw Christopher Hitchens on Hannity's Fox News show, and Hannity said something along the lines that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were atheists, and therefore atheism is bad. Clearly Hannity's argument against atheism by singling out three horrible people doesn't actually make atheism right or wrong. However, Hitchens did not focus respond to the accuracy of the claim.

In Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion he wrote:

There seems no doubt that, as a matter of fact, Stalin was an atheist. ... (page 273)

While Stalin was very harsh on the Russian Church, I do not remembering reading that he was an atheist. In fact, if I remember correctly, I read something about him being somewhat religious during the Second World War. It has been years since I read up on this, and can't remember the names of the books I read.

What is the evidence for or against Stalin's beliefs? Did he reject everything he was taught at the Seminary of Tiflis?

 

[MelBrooksfan]

His wikipedia article categorizes him as an atheist politician. Take that with whatever weight you choose.

 

[Complexity]

Stalin was a monster.

Hannity is his 'love' child.

 

[The Atheist]

I think it's pretty well established that Stalin was an atheist - he was responsible for state atheism in USSR, for starters.

Links for you:

Infidels

Positive Atheism

God

 

[kmortis]

I think it's pretty well established that Stalin was an atheist - he was responsible for state atheism in USSR, for starters.

Links for you:

Infidels

Positive Atheism

God

That's the thing. We'll never know what he really thought beacause his public profile was one of atheism. Although, I'd calssify him more as anti-religion because they're political rivals than a rejection of the divine for any logical reasons, but that's philosophical hair-splitting.

I thought it was Lenin that enacted offical state atheism. It's one of the tenants of Marxian Communism, which Lenin was inspired by, even if he modified it later.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Some quotes:

Stalin: Breaker of Nations by Robert Conquest

... though we need not believe one later Soviet claim that he read The Origin of Species at the age of thirteen while still at Gori, and told a fellow pupil that it proved the nonexistence of God. The story fails on several obvious accounts, including Stalin's remaining religious, even pious, for some years longer.
...
(page 20)

From Inside the Kremlin's Cold War: From Stalin to Khrushchev by
Vladislav Zubok, Constantine Pleshakov:

...
When Stalin was a Tiflis student at Russian Orthodox Church, where his mother sent him to become a priest, he became a closest atheist. (Many would later note, however, that his works were influenced by a distinctly biblical style). His atheism remained rooted in some vague idea of a God of nature. ...

(page 4)

 

[MelBrooksfan]

So, he was an agnostic, then?

 

[kmortis]

So, he was an agnostic, then?

No, just a tyrant who would use what means necessary to hold onto power. The meme in his place and time was that atheism was the way to go, so....

 

[rymdman]

I'd recommend BBC Horizons program about Stalin, "Stalin: Inside the Terror" wich among other things in his life, try to analyze or summarize his rather ambigous view towards religion. If I remember correctly, at the end of his life his older religious side started to come through again. According to the program he read the bible and took confessions all his life, even though he kept a different attitude outward. And the priest taking his confessions never kept any record on what might have been revealed to him. Would have been interesting to read though.

The program is constructed with new material from opened archives, and interviews with his few remaining relatives, and people that lived or worked with him. It includes some dramatisations as well, wich sometimes work pretty well.

 

[aries]

--- erm ---

I wouldn't call Hitler an atheist. Maybe only in the sense that he didn't believe in the Christian God. But Hitler was in fact a deeply religously man,
as was Göring and Himmler. The Nazis were obsessed with arcane, obscure teachings about some lost Viking tribe in the mountains of Tibet. That'swhy they sent many expeditions to Tibet, as portrait in the film 'seven years in tibet'. AndHitler himself believed he was the re-incarnation of Frederick Barbarossa (which directly linked either 1st or the 2nd Reich to Hitler's 3rd Reich since Barbarossa did succeed in merging all Germans into one nation).

The BBC has produced some fine broadcasts (or tv-programmes about this, not this directly, but on the way it touches every day life in Nazi Germany).
These programmes have been shown on Danish TV recently. And it was shown that the Nazis tried to outroot Christianity by replacing it with their own belief in NATURE. There was a Harvest Feast, a form of Solstice FEAST instead of Christmas, and other feasts given by the Naziparty. All done to outroot Christianiy or other religions other than that of the Führer-kult. When Hitler came to town, women and young children, and girls, flocked about him, and accounts have been told that women got orgasms while
Hitler talked.

I don't know about Mao and Stalin. However, it is clear to me that Stalin did learn something about religion when he studied to be a priest. Especially how to manipulate people's feelings so they would see him Stalin, as their Father, just like they have seen the Tsar, as their Father. As for Stalin, if his rise to power would have required him to believe in a blue ocean dwelling god, or the FSM , or light blue green polka dots fairies, then he would have done so.

Many people in Denmark claim to be religious now, simply because it is modern. Some of these people will vanish again in 2-5 years when it is not a fad, or the next big thing, to say you're religious.

I don't know about Mao, though.

 

[jimbob]

I liked Dawkin's take that Bad people will do bad things whether or not they believed in a god, but religion is effective at making faith is needed to make good people do bad.

I think that Osama Bin Laden is an idealist, and is convinced that his cause is right.

I imagine that many inquisitors believed they were a force for good.
​

I think Stalin believed in Stalin. In fact I would imagine that most megalomaniac rulers mainly believed in themselves (and/or their destiny).

Alexander seemed to.

Another way of spotting these with the benefit of history is if they are called "the great" in some countries; the only one I can think about that I am not sure about is Alfred "The Great" Alexander still isn't too popular in Persia.

Jim

 

[The Atheist]

Although, I'd calssify him more as anti-religion because they're political rivals than a rejection of the divine for any logical reasons, but that's philosophical hair-splitting.

Come on, Ken, that's why we're all hair isn't it? To cunningly split philosophical hares like there aren't enough infinitives?

 

[Questioninggeller]

I'd recommend BBC Horizons program about Stalin, "Stalin: Inside the Terror" wich among other things in his life, try to analyze or summarize his rather ambigous view towards religion. If I remember correctly, at the end of his life his older religious side started to come through again. According to the program he read the bible and took confessions all his life, even though he kept a different attitude outward. And the priest taking his confessions never kept any record on what might have been revealed to him. Would have been interesting to read though.

...

I haven't seen the program, but I remember reading something along the lines of him being ("more") religious later in life (after the 1930s purges) during the Second World War/postwar. I'll look into it some more.

I don't think it is just as easy to call Stalin an atheist as Dawkins did.

 

[The Atheist]

I don't think it is just as easy to call Stalin an atheist as Dawkins did.

Always interesting to speculate what a dead guy might have thought. The problem, as I see it, is that whatever Stalin said or did, he did and said those things for furtherance of the USSR, not necessarily because he thought they were correct.

I just find it a little odd that anyone who was responsible for tens of millions of murders could possibly think that they were going to go to heaven, but then again, murderers aren't the most rational people at the best of times.

I'm pretty happy with Stalin being classed as an atheist. I think that's an uncomfortable position for some atheists, just as lots of atheists like to argue Hitler's Catholicism. To me, the mere fact that atheism isn't a belief system means that I don't care who my bedfellows are - I am no more responsible for what they do/did than any other athiest is for me. (despite me being The Atheist.)

 

[Foster Zygote]

I liked Dawkin's take that Bad people will do bad things whether or not they believed in a god, but religion is effective at making faith is needed to make good people do bad.

I think that Osama Bin Laden is an idealist, and is convinced that his cause is right.

I imagine that many inquisitors believed they were a force for good.
​

I think Stalin believed in Stalin. In fact I would imagine that most megalomaniac rulers mainly believed in themselves (and/or their destiny).

Alexander seemed to.

Another way of spotting these with the benefit of history is if they are called "the great" in some countries; the only one I can think about that I am not sure about is Alfred "The Great" Alexander still isn't too popular in Persia.

Jim

Stalin's favorite film biographer (his name escapes me right now) talked about making a film dramatizing the Revolution. He first made a fairly accurate account which was screened first for Stalin, who demanded changes. He next made a less historically accurate film that inflated Stalin's participation in the Revolution and made Trotsky more of a bit player. The man of steel still didn't like it. Another version portrayed Stalin and Lenin as equals and made no mention of Trotsky whatsoever. But he still had to make another version, so he portrayed Stalin as the leader of the revolution with Lenin playing a major but, none the less, supporting role. Stalins comment: "There cannot be two suns in the sky!" The final version that was released to the public portrayed Stalin as the man who single handedly started and led the revolution, even showing him leading the crowd through the gates and up the steps of the royal palace. Lenin was a minor bit player with hardly any screen time.

Of course rational people are thinking "Why didn't Stalin just say what he wanted in the first place?". But apparently Stalin did this sort of thing all the time.

 

[Questioninggeller]

I just find it a little odd that anyone who was responsible for tens of millions of murders could possibly think that they were going to go to heaven, but then again, murderers aren't the most rational people at the best of times.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't think he was going to heaven. That doesn't directly tie to a belief in a deity/afterlife.

I'm pretty happy with Stalin being classed as an atheist. I think that's an uncomfortable position for some atheists, just as lots of atheists like to argue Hitler's Catholicism. To me, the mere fact that atheism isn't a belief system means that I don't care who my bedfellows are - I am no more responsible for what they do/did than any other athiest is for me. (despite me being The Atheist.)

I'm just trying to see on what basis people are claiming him an atheist. I don't care about him being called an atheist or not, but just the reason behind it.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

That's the thing. We'll never know what he really thought beacause his public profile was one of atheism. Although, I'd calssify him more as anti-religion because they're political rivals than a rejection of the divine for any logical reasons, but that's philosophical hair-splitting.

I thought it was Lenin that enacted offical state atheism. It's one of the tenants of Marxian Communism, which Lenin was inspired by, even if he modified it later.

"Kids, thank your Uncles Joe and Vlad for making atheism look bad."

 

[blutoski]

That's the thing. We'll never know what he really thought beacause his public profile was one of atheism.

Worse: the public image shifted with the times. As mentioned in an above post, there were a few years during WWII where Stalin appeared to be quite Russian Orthodox and directed the re-opening of churches. This was a morale thing.

Although, I'd calssify him more as anti-religion because they're political rivals than a rejection of the divine for any logical reasons, but that's philosophical hair-splitting.

It's clear that violence against churches and the unofficial policy of promoting atheists within the hierarchy was political. His personal beliefs about religion can only be speculated from secondary sources.

I thought it was Lenin that enacted offical state atheism. It's one of the tenants of Marxian Communism, which Lenin was inspired by, even if he modified it later.

The history is more complicated. Technically, Marxism endorsed state-church separation. The thought was that religion was a response to injustice, and the human need for religion would fade with the establishment of the improved standards of living that would come with collective production of commodities. Marx felt that this was all inevitable and that religion simply couldn't compete.

Lenin reframed communism into the timeframe of the struggle for ideological dominance, as Marxism became merely the 'endpoint' - society needed to pass through the current model first... and the sooner the better. Leninism was not about waiting for the 'inevitable', and that meant short-term violence for long-term benefit. The churches were left untouched for about a year, but then there was a foreign currency problem and the leadership hatched a plan to basically sack the churches for their assets (gold, jewels), accusing them of being counterrevolutionary as an excuse.

Stalin merely inherited this sad legacy, and as was his style, he took the concept to its extreme.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Fighting Words: The Origins Of Religious Violence by Hector Avalos:

If Hitler does not qualify as an atheist, Stalin certainly does in the eyes of many. Moreover, it has been claimed that Stalinist terror provides a primary example of how violence can be caused by atheism. Vance Ferrell, author of the antievolution compendium The Evolution Cruncher, tell us that “Lenin was an ardent evolutionist and so was Stalin. In fact, it was the message he read in Darwin’s book that turned Stalin into the bestial creature he became.”[1] In general, such statements are poorly documented or come from secondhand sources.

Our discussion will show that Stalin’s reign of terror had as much to do with politics as it did with atheism. Stalin, in fact, had a complex relationship with religious institutions in the Soviet Union. Much of our discussion will be documented with archival materials that have been brought to light only since the arrival of glasnost and fall of Communism.
...

page 325

 

[Questioninggeller]

From: Stalin: The First In-depth Biography Based on Explosive New Documents from Russia's Secret Archives by Edvard Radzinsky, pages 472 and 473.

[page 472]
...
[Stalin] declared the war a Great Patriotic War, a holy war fought by the people against aggressors, like Tsar Alexander I's war against the aggressor Napoleon. ...
...
During his mysterious retreat the ex-seminarist had decided to involve the aid of the God had had rejected. He had already heard that the Patriarch of Antioch had appealed to all Christians to come to Russia's aid.
...
... In the early days of the war both of them were very close to the Boss. Presumably from them he heard of an incident that shook the Orthodox world. Ilya, Metropolitan of the Lebanon Mountains, had shut himself up in an underground cell and gone without food or sleep while he knelt in prayer for Russia to the Mother of God. And had a miraculous vision, which he described in a letter to the leaders of the Orthodox Church in Russia. On the third

[page 473]

day the Mother of God appeared to him in a pillar of fire and given him God's sentence: "The churches and monasteries must be reopened throughout the country. Priests must be brought back from imprisonment, Leningrad must not be surrendered, but the sacred icon of Our Lady of Kazan should be carried around the city boundary, taken on to Moscow, where a service should be held, and thence to Stalingrad [Tsaritsyn]."

These words must have sounded like something from Stalin's childhood. A little while before he had proclaimed a "Godless Five-Year Plan," by the end of which (in 1943) the last church was to be closed and the last priest destroyed. But now the Boss decided to act on Ilya's vision. This was the beginning of his remarkable, and short-lived return to God.

Was it that? Had he seen the light? Had fear made him run to his Father? Had the Marxist God-Man simply decided to exploit belief in God? Or was it all of these things at once? Whatever the reason, after his mysterious retreat, he began making his peace with God. Something happened which no historians has yet written about. On his orders many priests were brought back to the camps. In Leningrad, besieged by the Germans and gradually dying of hunger, the inhabitants were astounded, and uplifted, to see wonder-working icon Our Lady of Kazan brought out into the streets and borne in procession. From Leningrad the icon went to Moscow, and was then sent to besieged Stalingrad. It was displayed in each of the three great cities which had not surrendered to the enemy. Twenty thousand churches were re-opened, including those of the Monastery of the Trinity and St Sergius, and the Monastery of the Caves in Kiev. He and his generals sent troops into battle with the words "God go with you."...
...

Another interesting quote by Stalin from a few years before. From: Stalin and the Soviet-Finnish War, 1939-1940 by E.n. Kulkov (2002), page 85.

...
Joseph Stalin: You did not want to breakthrough. The Finns were closing the circlement. They did not spare their machine-guns. They narrowed the circle. They registered on every target-- any Finn, Tatar, of Chinese will take the range if you keep sitting. The Finns use their weapons, small arms, motars-- everything.
So you don't rank Gusevsky as a hero?
Vasily Chuikov: No.
Joseph Stalin: Thank God.
Vasily Chuikov: The Finnish 9th division, which surrounded the 54th, sustained great losses: only old men over 40 and women survived.
Joseph Stalin: But it was you, not the old men, who were surrounded.
...