Libertarian Hero Ron Paul Blames US for 9/11

He got four of his recent weapons from two US airline companies, and poor US airline security policy, via a method called "conversion" or "Theft" and even "armed robbery" if one considers a box cutter an "arm."

As to your other question, I'd offer "the international arms market" and "the international arms black market" for the more mundane tools of the trade.

You will note that AK-47's are not made in America. ;)

DR


*lol* I noted it. And I believe that the Soviet Union did his best to block the flow of their weaponry to the Mujahedeen, didn't they?
 
It has nothing to do with 9/11, unless the 19 highjackers used US made box cutters supplied by the CIA during the Afghan war.


I don't understand your general point. Do you think that the US-Middle-East policies had no influence at all? Do you think that AQ's statements are a hoax and their only reason was a distorted view of religion? :confused:
 
I don't understand your general point. Do you think that the US-Middle-East policies had no influence at all? Do you think that AQ's statements are a hoax and their only reason was a distorted view of religion? :confused:

I think al Qaeda has a distorted view of everything, they are not rational people. 9/11 was their doing.

The US have done many things wrong in the Middle East, but they are not responsible for this group of madmen's actions.
 
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I don't understand your general point. Do you think that the US-Middle-East policies had no influence at all? Do you think that AQ's statements are a hoax and their only reason was a distorted view of religion? :confused:
Do you want the Bader Meinhof gang to come back and fix what is wrong in Germany?

DR
 
I don't understand your general point. Do you think that the US-Middle-East policies had no influence at all? Do you think that AQ's statements are a hoax and their only reason was a distorted view of religion? :confused:

What recognized government does AQ represent?
 
I think al Qaeda has a distorted view of everything, they are not rational people. 9/11 was their doing.

The US have done many things wrong in the Middle East, but they are not responsible for this group of madmen's actions.


Even if I agree that the US wasn't responsible directly - I really can't say they were innocent. That's why I support the Idea to actually think in terms of: "How would we think if they do this or that to us - before we do this or that to them".
 
Rubbish. Man, Ollie, you're running out of ideas.


You know what I can criticize in your postings, Pardalis? You are quick to make a side-comment but you always refuse to give your full point of view to find a base on which someone could start to argue with you.

Explain it to me since I'm running out of Ideas: Why did the Bush Regime imply that Saddam had something to do with it - and more importantly: Why don't you care?
 
I believe we were talking about OBL and AQ, and their responsibility for 9/11.

Not Iraq.

Does OBL have any authority to speak for the ME? No. He's the leader of a fringe group of radical extremists.
 
I believe we were talking about OBL and AQ, and their responsibility for 9/11.

Not Iraq.

Does OBL have any authority to speak for the ME? No. He's the leader of a fringe group of radical extremists.


Why are you dodging every time I ask something? This way we can babble all day long instead find a common ground.

I ask you this one:

Explain it to me since I'm running out of Ideas: Why did the Bush Regime imply that Saddam had something to do with it - and more importantly: Why don't you care?


...And you ask me something different in return, agreed?
 
Let's just agree to disagree: You say AQ has a point, I say they're nuts.


Yep, Al Qaida has a point which is:

"LEAVE US ALONE!!!"

But I appreciate your ignorance to prevent another 9/11. You're a wise guy, Pardalis.
 
And I should add (again):

Thank God Bush cares about Osama. WE ARE SAFE!!! :rolleyes:
 
One of the biggest assumptions Ron Paul's detractors seem to make is that America and the American people are somehow one and the same. So when he puts forth the suggestion that our government is an indirect cause of attacks on us, it can be twisted as a "blaim the victim" mentality.

People also seem to equate Dr. Paul's idea that we shouldn't invade other countries or engage in any sort of warfare unless it is in response to a threat towards the United States seems to be equated to "isolationism". I can't quite grasp how sending off our military into the business of other nations is less isolationist than not doing so. Whatever good our military can do, it is ultimately a killing machine.

But, about the motives...

CIA analyst Michael Scheuer (I his wikipedia page coves his qualifications well) seems to think al Qaeda genuinly believes its complaints against us. Of course, he could be incorrect. Right or wrong, both he, the 9/11 commission report, and many others acknowledge that our government's actions in the Middle East are responsible for creating a vast number of al Qaeda's followers. The nuttiness of certain al Qaeda members is a problem, but there are nuts everywhere. The largest problem is al Qaeda convincing the muslim world that their views are correct, and there is little doubt that our foreign interventions in the Middle East have furthered that goal.

9/11 Commission Report said:
2.2 BIN LADIN’S APPEAL IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD

It is the story of eccentric and violent ideas sprouting in the fertile ground of political and social turmoil. It is the story of an organization poised to seize its historical moment. How did Bin Ladin—with his call for the indiscriminate killing of Americans—win thousands of followers and some degree of approval from millions more?
The history, culture, and body of beliefs from which Bin Ladin has shaped and spread his message are largely unknown to many Americans. Seizing on symbols of Islam’s past greatness, he promises to restore pride to people who consider themselves the victims of successive foreign masters. He uses cultural and religious allusions to the holy Qur’an and some of its interpreters. He appeals to people disoriented by cyclonic change as they confront modernity and globalization. His rhetoric selectively draws from multiple sources—Islam, history, and the region’s political and economic malaise. He also stresses grievances against the United States widely shared in the Muslim world. Heinveighed against the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam’s holiest sites. He spoke of the suffering of the Iraqi people as a result of sanctions imposed after the Gulf War, and he protested U.S. support of Israel.
9/11 Commission Report said:
...America is also held responsible for the governments of Muslim countries, derided by al Qaeda as “your agents.”Bin Ladin has stated flatly,“Our fight against these governments is not separate from our fight against you.”14 These charges found a ready audience among millions of Arabs and Muslims angry at the United States because of issues ranging from Iraq to Palestine to America’s support for their countries’ repressive rulers.

Michael Scheuer seems to believe our actions have far more of a role in convincing the average Muslim of our evil than anything else mentioned in the 9/11 report.

Though, I should point out that Dr. Paul's objections to our military interventions pre-date 9/11. His objection is, ultimately, more pragmatic than just the recent terrorism problem. He simply looks at the past 50 years of history, looks at both Iraqs, Vietnam, Korea, etc, and believes that our foreign military interventions have done more harm than good to this nation and its ability to defend itself. They have, of course, also done both harm and good to other nations, but Dr. Paul seems to believe our government's role is to protect our nation first and foremost.

I'm not sure if he would equate our embargos on Japan's oil and scrap metal which led to our being attacked at Perl Harbor as an intervention or not. He seems to speak favorably of our enterance into WWII, so I'd imagine he has no argument against our enterance into it.
 
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One of the biggest assumptions Ron Paul's detractors seem to make is that America and the American people are somehow one and the same. So when he puts forth the suggestion that our government is an indirect cause of attacks on us, it can be twisted as a "blaim the victim" mentality.

People also seem to equate Dr. Paul's idea that we shouldn't invade other countries or engage in any sort of warfare unless it is in response to a threat towards the United States seems to be equated to "isolationism". I can't quite grasp how sending off our military into the business of other nations is less isolationist than not doing so. Whatever good our military can do, it is ultimately a killing machine.

But, about the motives...

CIA analyst Michael Scheuer (I his wikipedia page coves his qualifications well) seems to think al Qaeda genuinly believes its complaints against us. Of course, he could be incorrect. Right or wrong, both he, the 9/11 commission report, and many others acknowledge that our government's actions in the Middle East are responsible for creating a vast number of al Qaeda's followers. The nuttiness of certain al Qaeda members is a problem, but there are nuts everywhere. The largest problem is al Qaeda convincing the muslim world that their views are correct, and there is little doubt that our foreign interventions in the Middle East have furthered their goal.

Michael Scheuer seems to believe our actions have far more of a role in convincing the average Muslim of our evil than anything else mentioned in the 9/11 report.

Though, I should point out that Dr. Paul's objections to our military interventions pre-date 9/11. His objection is, ultimately, more pragmatic than just the recent terrorism problem. He simply looks at the past 50 years of history, looks at both Iraqs, Vietnam, Korea, etc, and believes that our foreign military interventions have done more harm than good to this nation and its ability to defend itself. They have, of course, also done both harm and good to other nations, but Dr. Paul seems to believe our government's role is to protect our nation first and foremost.

I'm not sure if he would equate our embargos on Japan's oil and scrap metal which led to our being attacked at Perl Harbor as an intervention or not. He seems to speak favorably of our enterance into WWII, so I'd imagine he has no argument against our enterance into it.


The US is "casting the stones around" in military ways every single year since the end of WW2. Somehow some idiots within Pentagon and CIA seem to think they are some holy crusaders in the name of God.

And of course, any official, public war is declared as fight for freedom and the enemy is japardizing these freedoms - and the american people actually believe this *hit. :rolleyes: Oh, and so does Pardalis... :D

The US strategies are about Money, Influence, Imperialism. They give a ***** about "evil" Regimes, evil Dictators and "Evildoers" who actually have WMD's. So the Government is nothing but a bunch of cowardliness Liars.

But I'm glad to see that at least some Americans are Men enough to face the truth.
 
But I'm glad to see that at least some Americans are Men enough to face the truth.
I think most are. My theory is that your average American just wants to get on with his life. He doesn't want the government spending his money on silly projects, and he certainly doesn't want them picking fights with foreign terrorists. Although I'm certainly no liberal, I think this guy said it best:
Jon Stewart said:
But you don’t see moderates taking to the streets, chanting ‘Be reasonable’! Why is that? Because normal people have **** to do!
Sadly, things have to get way out of wack until your average guy takes notice.

Honestly, I don't think most politians are that corrupt. I think the prevailing attitude in politics is never to mention America's mistakes. This has the nasty tendency to simply not elect people who do, and keep us from actually being able to learn from and correct our mistakes. So I don't think its that politians always do this consciously (although some certainly do, e.g. Rudy), but its more just a product of the political atmosphere and the election processes.
 

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