American soldiers think it's ok to torture - DoD

[chran]

The Department of Defense today released key findings from the latest Mental Health Advisory Team (MHAT-IV) survey, the fourth in a series of studies since 2003 to assess the mental health and well-being of the deployed forces serving in Iraq.

Key findings:

• More than one-third of all soldiers and Marines reported that torture should be allowed to save the life of a fellow soldier or Marine
• Less than half of soldiers and Marines would report a team member for unethical behavior
• Approximately 10 percent of soldiers reported mistreating non-combatants or damaging their property when it was not necessary

Source: http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=10824

Well, that is absolutely frightening.

Don't these soldiers get any kind of ethics training before they're deployed? I blame their commanders and the military, before I blame the individual soldiers, mind you.

 

[Rob Lister]

Key findings: Source: http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=10824

Well, that is absolutely frightening.

That is the general idea.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I would like to see the results of the same survey taken by cops.

Or the general public.

I bet they'd all show the same results.

I have a low opinion of humanity.

 

[Solus]

The soldiers are human beings what do you expect?

 

[chran]

The soldiers are human beings what do you expect?

Umm, that they NOT torture people?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Umm, that they NOT torture people?

U.S. soldiers earned a reputation during WWI of being so honorable and merciful towards P.O.W.'s that it can be argued it saved many lives during that war, and in the next. People are much more willing to surrender to an honorable foe. During the Battle of the Bulge, the U.S. took German P.O.W.'s by the tens of thousands based partly on the reputation for decent behavior earned a generation earlier.

What's happened?

 

[TragicMonkey]

It's not new. Americans were up to torture when we fought the Philippine independence movement. We did "water boarding". There was even testimony before Congress about how it didn't really hurt anybody.

I'd bet that all conflicts have involved people committing torture and worse. It's just that we hear about it more these days.

 

[Just thinking]

U.S. soldiers earned a reputation during WWI of being so honorable and merciful towards P.O.W.'s that it can be argued it saved many lives during that war, and in the next. People are much more willing to surrender to an honorable foe. During the Battle of the Bulge, the U.S. took German P.O.W.'s by the tens of thousands based partly on the reputation for decent behavior earned a generation earlier.

What's happened?

Some in the media have changed your outlook ... or perhaps I should say, molded it? Do you really think that torture is on the daily menu at US POW camps today? And if so, at what level?

Anyway, to answer your question ... not much, if anything. I'll still wager that if a country had choice of an advancing army overtaking it (one set on overthrowing the present regime) that the US would rank over many others, especially those of the Middle East.

And for what it's worth, with regards to the opening post, I for one would torture an enemy combatant if it meant saving the lives of my fellow comrades -- you know, those guys at times putting their lives on the line for me.

 

[Solus]

U.S. soldiers earned a reputation during WWI of being so honorable and merciful towards P.O.W.'s that it can be argued it saved many lives during that war, and in the next. People are much more willing to surrender to an honorable foe. During the Battle of the Bulge, the U.S. took German P.O.W.'s by the tens of thousands based partly on the reputation for decent behavior earned a generation earlier.

What's happened?

How honorable was the US in it's treatment of the Japanese though... Yes, the Japanese were MUCH worse but lets not forget what the US did in that case. I think it has to do with sharing a similar cultural background; a point could be made the general US soldier was kinder to the Germans because of shared history and culture. Contrast that with Iraq in which the common solider has no connection.

 

[ponderingturtle]

U.S. soldiers earned a reputation during WWI of being so honorable and merciful towards P.O.W.'s that it can be argued it saved many lives during that war, and in the next. People are much more willing to surrender to an honorable foe. During the Battle of the Bulge, the U.S. took German P.O.W.'s by the tens of thousands based partly on the reputation for decent behavior earned a generation earlier.

What's happened?

They are learning effective interogation techniques from such sources as 24.

 

[Drysdale]

Key findings: Source: http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=10824

Well, that is absolutely frightening.

Don't these soldiers get any kind of ethics training before they're deployed? I blame their commanders and the military, before I blame the individual soldiers, mind you.

Oh brother.

I'd have more of a problem if they did'nt. This is not a country we are fighting,
it's guerrilla warfare and as such we have to adapt to that which I think is a big part of our problem already.

Also, this is a big problem when the enemy we are fighting is a ruthless religious radical who does'nt care if they or their family live or die and celebrate any deaths of infidels anywhere?

You're kidding right?

 

[wahrheit]

Oh brother.

I'd have more of a problem if they did'nt. This is not a country we are fighting,
it's guerrilla warfare and as such we have to adapt to that which I think is a big part of our problem already.

Also, this is a big problem when the enemy we are fighting is a ruthless religious radical who does'nt care if they or their family live or die and celebrate any deaths of infidels anywhere?

So, two wrongs make a right?

At least, that's how I understood your post.

 

[Drysdale]

So, two wrongs make a right?

At least, that's how I understood your post.

This isnt disciplining a child. It's people's lives we are talking here.
The radicals dont care about human rights when it comes to infidels or themselves for that matter, why should we?

If ever there was a case for an eye for an eye this is it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

This isnt disciplining a child. It's people's lives we are talking here.
The radicals dont care about human rights when it comes to infidels or themselves for that matter, why should we?

If ever there was a case for an eye for an eye this is it.

The act of torture damages the torturer as well as the torturee. You can't encourage people to act like beasts, then be surprised when they do--in other settings. The loyal terrorist-fighting soldier who's torturing Iraqis on Wednesday will be slicing up girlfriends next year.

Heck, we consider abuse of animals to be indicative of a psychopathic nature that may well lead to serial killing. Some kid chops the ears off a rabbit and it's time for shrinks, or twenty years later it's a special on Court TV. What the hell is going to result from people letting their Hostel fantasies run rampant, then expecting them to come home and switch it off? Ordinary warfare ****s people's heads up enough, do we really want to branch out into sadism?

 

[Solus]

This isnt disciplining a child. It's people's lives we are talking here.
The radicals dont care about human rights when it comes to infidels or themselves for that matter, why should we?

If ever there was a case for an eye for an eye this is it.

An eye for an eye will quickly lead to being blind...

I would like america to least try to be above religious fanatics or should the US military adopt terror tactics as well?

 

[wahrheit]

In addition to what TragicMonkey and Solus have already replied,

This isnt disciplining a child. It's people's lives we are talking here.
The radicals dont care about human rights when it comes to infidels or themselves for that matter, why should we?

If ever there was a case for an eye for an eye this is it.

Bolding mine.

Exactly. It's people's lives we are talking here. You do realize that those being tortured (in a war or elsewhere) are people, too. Don't you?

 

[Drysdale]

Well, like anything else what is considered torture?

Pulling fingernails out and chopping off appendages etc. no.

Intense interrogation including water boarding,sleep deprivation etc. I can understand.

When you take the moral high ground and it isnt effective is there not a time to change tactics?

Again, this is not a political ideolgy here we are talking about.
It's a religious radical ideology that will not be satisfied until their religious fanaticism prevails or is utterly defeated.

They care not about themselves or sending their children and wives on suicide missions to kill infidels.

Dont you think this requires a little more intense actions than wars in the past?

 

[wahrheit]

Pulling fingernails out and chopping off appendages etc. no.

You've got to be kidding.

Intense interrogation including water boarding,sleep deprivation etc. I can understand.

When you take the moral high ground and it isnt effective is there not a time to change tactics?

Again, this is not a political ideolgy here we are talking about.
It's a religious radical ideology that will not be satisfied until their religious fanaticism prevails or is utterly defeated.

They care not about themselves or sending their children and wives on suicide missions to kill infidels.

Dont you think this requires a little more intense actions than wars in the past?

Bolding mine.

No, I certainly do not think that this requires "a little more intense actions than wars in the past". You obviously do not know what happened in wars in the past. I assure you, they did not lack cruelty.

They have history books in your local library. You might want to read up a little on wars of the past.

 

[joe1347]

Study's findings on longer deployments raise questions about Pentagon's decision to extend tours
By Julian E. Barnes
Times Staff Writer

2:54 PM PDT, May 4, 2007

WASHINGTON — Longer deployments of soldiers and Marines in Iraq erode the morale and mental health of service members, an Army survey released today has found. The conclusion raises new questions about the Pentagon's recent decision to extend Army tours to 15 months.

The report found that soldiers, who have tours that are twice as long as Marines, have lower morale, more marital problems and higher rates of mental health problems. The report also found that soldiers who had been sent to Iraq more than once were more likely to screen positive for acute stress and mental health problems.

About 10% of soldiers and Marines reported mistreating civilians or damaging property. And a majority of soldiers and Marines said they would not report a fellow service member for mistreating an Iraqi.

The study found that soldiers who had high levels of anger, experienced high levels of combat or screened positive for a mental health symptom were nearly twice as likely to mistreat non-combatants as those who reported low levels of anger, said Maj. Gen. Gale Pollock, the acting Army surgeon general.

Experts said those findings raised warning signs about the possibility of more incidents like the massacre of civilians at Haditha or the mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib as tours grow longer to accommodate the current buildup in forces.

http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fairenough/latimes982.html

Maybe the soldiers in the study have just been in Iraq too long and it's starting to take a real toll on their morality?

 

[Drysdale]

You've got to be kidding.

Bolding mine.

No, I certainly do not think that this requires "a little more intense actions than wars in the past". You obviously do not know what happened in wars in the past. I assure you, they did not lack cruelty.

They have history books in your local library. You might want to read up a little on wars of the past.

Torture has been around as long as their have been wars. Thats not news to me.

In this case though I dont have a problem with it. I cant have respect for rights of terrorists that dont even respect themselves or their families much less others.

Just the way I feel about it.