Challenge to William Rodriguez

israelside said:
Granted, it was BEFORE the plane hit.
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We don't know that. It was before William Rodriguez heard another explosion from above. That's all we know.

Mr. Rodriguez assumes the sound from above was the impact of the aircraft.

-Gumboot
 
~enigma~ said:
What did I say that indicated anything about that post? You were saying that iS's questions were just questions and I said they were leading. Sort of like asking someone if they stopped beating their spouse. How do you answer? That has no bearing on your post.
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You said in your post to the troofer IS that he had not read what "Rodriguez had written to LashL and myself" - the obvious inferences being that what Rodriguez had written "to LashL and myself" was relevant to IS' post (it was not) and that it was accurate (it was not), and that it was accepted as factual by me since I was one of the addressees (it most certainly was not).

You completely ignored my response to your post in which you quoted the email that Rodriguez apparently addressed to me, but by posting a passing reference to it subsequently in the manner in which you did, it came across as an inference that I accepted that post-by-proxy of William's. I do not, at all, accept as true what William said in that email, for the reasons set out in my post #159 and the documents cited therein.

The way I see it, if you are going to post on behalf of Rodriguez and if you're going to cite his proxy-post directed to me, then you should at least acknowledge my direct response and my non-acceptance of what he said in his post-by-proxy, especially if you are going to later cite the post-by-proxy again.

And, no, it is not even remotely similar in any way, shape or form to "asking someone if they stopped beating their spouse." I am, quite frankly, surprised at you for saying that.

ETA: now, it's time for bed, so I'll leave you to duke it out with the troofer IS. Please drop a note to Rodriguez when you have a moment and let him know that I do not accept what he wrote in his message to me through you, and ask him to either write me directly (you have my email address, and the PM function here is easy to use) or to post himself and respond to the legitimate questions raised. Thanks.
 
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LashL said:
You said in your post to IS that he had not read what "Rodriguez had written to LashL and myself" - the obvious inferences being that what Rodriguez had written "to LashL and myself" was relevant to IS' post (it was not) and that it was accurate (it was not), and that it was accepted as factual by me since I was one of the addressees (it most certainly was not).

You completely ignored my response to your post in which you quoted the email that Rodriguez apparently addressed to me, but by posting a passing reference to it subsequently in the manner in which you did, it came across as an inference that I accepted that post-by-proxy of William's. I do not, at all, accept as true what William said in that email, for the reasons set out in my post #159 and the documents cited therein.

The way I see it, if you are going to post on behalf of Rodriguez and if you're going to cite his proxy-post directed to me, then you should at least acknowledge my direct response and my non-acceptance of what he said in his post-by-proxy, especially if you are going to later cite the post-by-proxy again.

And, no, it is not even remotely similar in any way, shape or form to "asking someone if they stopped beating their spouse." I am, quite frankly, surprised at you for saying that.
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i neither accused you of accepting or even recognizing what i posted from Rodriguez, I referred to it that way so IS could find it. As to the "spouse beating" you know I was referring to IS's JAQing off to Rodriguez. i have no idea why you would even think that was directed to you. Frankly, I am surprised you think it was directed at you.
 
gumboot said:
We don't know that. It was before William Rodriguez heard another explosion from above. That's all we know.

Mr. Rodriguez assumes the sound from above was the impact of the aircraft.

-Gumboot
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Well think about this, if the first blast he heard was from beneath him, that rules out the plane making that sound, unless a fireball travels faster than sound waves. I guess we'll never fully know what happend, but if he said he heard a explosion of some sort beneath him at first and then something above doesn't matter...it proves some sort of device was planted in the building, or atleast thats the odds. Again it could have been a generator exploading, but for it to expload the plane would have had to hit first! Logical to you?

Why is a planted device in the base of the building so hard for you all to imagine? Is that so horrible to think that Kroll or the secruity around the WTC could have set up bombs in the basement to take down the building? Why does that just sound so bad? It's as if you people are in denial of this event even POSSIBLY happening!
 
LashL said:
He said he heard "splosion, splosion, splosion, splosion" etc. (the number of "splosions" he says he heard has increased over the years)
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you two (Lashl and enigma), making fun of his accent is unacceptable and childish. please stop, it demeans the entire forum. it's deliberately hurtful and i am calling you on it.
 
israelside said:
Well think about this, if the first blast he heard was from beneath him, that rules out the plane making that sound, unless a fireball travels faster than sound waves.
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Why would that be?

Why do you assume he would even hear the impact of the aircraft in the basement? Other survivors and victims report the only sign of impact being the building shaking and rumbling slightly, not an explosion.

William Rodriguez seems to be the only person inside the building and outside the immediate impact area that actually managed to hear the impact.

Does that sound reasonable?

Or could it be that neither of the sounds he heard were the aircraft impact?

Let me ask you a question:

What's the difference between a loud explosion heard through 110 floors of concrete and steel and a quiet explosion heard through 1 floor or concrete and steel?



israelside said:
I guess we'll never fully know what happend, but if he said he heard a explosion of some sort beneath him at first and then something above doesn't matter...it proves some sort of device was planted in the building, or atleast thats the odds.
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It doesn't, at all.

We don't know precisely when either of these noises occured, and we don't know what caused them.

However, consider:

According to their testimony, the lower explosion happened at the freight elevator on the B2 level and caused a large fireball that left the skin hanging from a man's arms.

This is entirely consistent with a fireball caused by ignited jet fuel spilling down elevator shafts. It is entirely inconsistent with a bomb blast.





israelside said:
Why is a planted device in the base of the building so hard for you all to imagine?
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I'm not interested in imagination. I'm interested in facts. I'm a writer and filmmaker. I can imagine anything. I can probably imagine things you can't even begin to comprehend.

Imagination is useless, when studying actual worlds events.

Facts. Evidence. Reality.

-Gumboot
 
Mr. Rodriguez:

If you are reading, I would just like to say that the allegations and claims made in the lawsuit mentioned above are horrible and ill founded.

If you feel these allegations no longer represent your view on the matter, than an interview by Ron or Mark would be a great way to clear the air. I can guarantee that almost all your critics here will watch it with good intent.

Just a suggestion.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Mr. Rodriguez:

If you are reading, I would just like to say that the allegations and claims made in the lawsuit mentioned above are horrible and ill founded.

If you feel these allegations no longer represent your view on the matter, than an interview by Ron or Mark would be a great way to clear the air. I can guarantee that almost all your critics here will watch it with good intent.

Just a suggestion.

TAM:)
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What happened to the law suit?
 
T.A.M. said:
Mr. Rodriguez claims he has taken himself out of the law suit, as of 2006.

TAM:)
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Haven't many been blocked by the government using National security?

It's worth noting that Rodriguez refused the victims compensation fund in order to be able to persue law suits.
 
soundaddicted said:
Haven't many been blocked by the government using National security?

It's worth noting that Rodriguez refused the victims compensation fund in order to be able to persue law suits.
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Ah! You meant to say, "They got to him too", don't you.
 
soundaddicted:

perhaps. I am not sure its relevence to my post though.

I was merely suggesting, based on William's reply to Enigma et al, that in order to better clear the air, he may want to do this interview with Ron or Mark...thats all.

And yes, it is worth knowing he refused the fund, but at the time, he may, MAY, have done so under advisement, in that a bigger reward was expected through the suit...I cannot speak for him, so like you I will note it only, and hopefully Mr. Rodriguez will clear the air. He was certainly entitled to some compensation for his ordeal, regardless of its source.

Cheers

TAM:)
 
Here's a short clip of William describing the explosions. When he asks the man with the burning skin, "what happened?", the man replies "the elevators."

Like it has been suggested numerous times, jet fuel down the elevators is the obvious answer.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C1DbvyhZtnY
 
Speed of sound in steel

gumboot said:
We don't know that. It was before William Rodriguez heard another explosion from above. That's all we know.

Mr. Rodriguez assumes the sound from above was the impact of the aircraft.

-Gumboot
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This came up years ago someplace:

The speed of sound varies considerably depending in which medium it is traveling. There were several reports that people in the lobby of WTC 1 heard AND felt two separate "explosions." It was postulated that the first sound was the result of the sound (and vibrations) traveling through the structural steel of the core, and the second was the sound of the fuel explosion from the 767 hitting the tower traveling trough air.

Indeed, as this calculation shows, the speed of sound through air (varying with temperature) is around 337 meters per second.

The speed for structural steel is 4,512 meters per second.

Given these speeds, the wave traveling through the structural steel would arrive in the basement almost instantaneously whereas the sound through air would arrive about 1.3 seconds later.

Whether this is responsible for what Rodriquez experienced is unknown, but his first description to CNN on 9/11/2001 was quoted as

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."
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israelside, in a day or two I'll have a great deal of reading material for you that I think will clear up any doubts you may have about what happened in the elevator shafts and basements of the towers. I hope you can be patient until then.
 
I see no reason why whatsoever why Mr Rodriguez would hear the impact of AA11. People much closer to the impact than him did not hear it. They felt it, but they didn't hear it.

Remember, there's a lot of explanations for sounds around the time of impact. There's the fireball from UA175, which came seconds after impact, and then there's dozens of explosions at various elevator shafts as the jet fuel exploded.

Is there any reason to think every single elevator explosion occurred at once? I doubt it.

How do we know Mr Rodriguez's second "explosion" was the aircraft impact? How can he tell it was 90+ floors above him? How does he know it wasn't the fireball in the lobby immediately above him that he heard?

The answer is we don't, he can't, and he doesn't.

-Gumboot
 
LashL said:
Another one I had never heard is the astrology/numerology one about the June 2001 NORAD planning exercise named "Amalgam Virgo 01" which involved a hypothetical scenario of a cruise missile launched a barge on the East Coast, and in which, apparently, Osama bin Laden was pictured on the cover of the proposal for the exercise. What does the Rodriguez lawsuit say about this, you ask? "The attacks of 9/11 occurred, of course, while the sun was in the astrological sign of Virgo, in the year "01."
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HAHAHAHAHA! Man I'd love to see someone try to argue that in court! Even the team a Boston Legal wouldn't touch this nonsense.


israelside said:
Was the guy that was burned (skill peeling off) hurting from the bomb below you or from a possible fireball in the elevator shaft?
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Notice that he says "the" bomb and "possible" fireball. If that's not a loaded question I don't know what is.
 
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