Thomas Jefferson's admiration and financial support of Christianity

[drkitten]

Do you have a source for your assertion that the ACLU does not see any of the money awarded in the San Diego Boy Scout case?

Yes. Your own. The fact that this was awarded as court costs and attorney's fees means that the ACLU doesn't see it. It goes to the court system and to the attorneys employed by the ACLU, respectively.

(Well spotted, Cleon. Shall I write Randi on your behalf, as one of the necessary affidavits?)

 

[Cleon]

(Well spotted, Cleon. Shall I write Randi on your behalf, as one of the necessary affidavits?)

Please do. I'll be sure to use the million to make a substantial contribution to the ACLU.

 

[wahrheit]

On the other hand, he does a good job of providing an example of how religious fanatics lie to get their political agendas through. Every lie he tells becomes one more example on record.

That's absolutely right. I guess that's exactly why some of us are still here in this thread. Leaving his lies and wild assertions unanswered on the internet would be a very bad idea.

 

[DOC]

Originally Posted by DOC

Do you have a source for your assertion that the ACLU does not see any of the money awarded in the San Diego Boy Scout case?

Yes. Your own. The fact that this was awarded as court costs and attorney's fees means that the ACLU doesn't see it. It goes to the court system and to the attorneys employed by the ACLU, respectively.

So you make assertions using my sources that other people have complained about.

And who wrote the checks that the ACLU attorneys received in the boy scout case: the ACLU or the city of San Diego?

 

[drkitten]

So you make assertions using my sources that other people have complained about.

Yes. When your own sources show you to be incorrect, there's no reason for me to dig up any others.

Basically, it's your choice. Either you are claiming that your source, which states that the ACLU didn't get any of the money, is accurate.... or you are claiming that your source is inaccurate, in which case we have no reason to believe that the ACLU got any money at all.

Which one are you claiming?

And who writes the check that the ACLU attorneys receive: the ACLU or the city of San Diego.

The City of San Diego, typically. Sometimes it's the ACLU, because the ACLU has already written a comparable check to the attorneys. So what?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Dialect aside, I carry my ACLU membership card in my wallet when I'm at home here in Detroit. Any cop who wants to see some ID will get a flash of it. Might help.

But when I travel out into the hinterland -- into the guts of America -- I leave that card at home. I don't want some small-town lawman reading my anti-Christian credentials. Wouldn't help at all.

I keep mine next to my NRA membership card. The sight of which, together, are often enough to cause a fundie's (and the occasional leftist's) head to explode due to the perceived cognitive dissonance.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

DOC, not in the slightest have you answered any of the previous posts and questions directed at you.

Coming up with "evidence" in the form of a web link to Worldnet Daily. You cannot be in earnest!

What's next, DOC? Will you "prove" that Priscilla Presley gave birth to a baby with 3 heads by posting a link to Weekly World News?

Well, he did just quote a disgraced judge.

 

[skeptifem]

Well I never heard of Ed Geins

he is the man 'psycho', 'silence of the lambs' *partially*, and "the texas chainsaw massacre' are based off of. He dug up bodies and killed a few people too- wore their skin and made stuff out of em and such. weird. but yeah his life was extremely religious, and so was his mother, who he lived with and obsessed about after her death.

but in regard to the Inquisition here is excerpts from the article "Criticisms of the Catholic Church" on Wiki.

<snip>

this does nothing to prove your claim that praying a lot or having a belief in the christian god does anything to prevent senseless murder.

 

[skeptifem]

so DOC why do you think the boyscouts deserve to descriminate despite the money given to them by the government?

I also want to know why nambla members shouldnt have their freedom of speech defended

 

[Ducky]

This thread isn't about me its about the church going Jefferson.

If this is the case, DOC, then why all the sidestepping about Lincoln, Judges who are in the KKK, Communists, ACLU and their actions, the Boy Scouts, and all of the rest of the crap you posted after we destroyed your stance on Jefferson?

 

[drkitten]

If this is the case, DOC, then why all the sidestepping about Lincoln, Judges who are in the KKK, Communists, ACLU and their actions, the Boy Scouts, and all of the rest of the crap you posted after we destroyed your stance on Jefferson?

I think you've answered your own question. The sidestepping is because we've destroyed his stance on Jefferson, and he's got to find some other way to justify his ill-founded and incorrect believe that separation of church and state is not a fundamental aspect of the Bill of Rights -- which is what he's really interested in proving.

 

[fuelair]

he is the man 'psycho', 'silence of the lambs' *partially*, and "the texas chainsaw massacre' are based off of. He dug up bodies and killed a few people too- wore their skin and made stuff out of em and such. weird. but yeah his life was extremely religious, and so was his mother, who he lived with and obsessed about after her death.



this does nothing to prove your claim that praying a lot or having a belief in the christian god does anything to prevent senseless murder.

Don't know where the minor mix-up was but it's Ed Gein

 

[Darat]

I said it earlier - coming into this thread I only had a vague idea of Jefferson and the separation of church and state, this thread has taught me he fully supported the separation of church and state.

 

[DOC]

If this is the case, DOC, then why all the sidestepping about Lincoln, Judges who are in the KKK, Communists, ACLU and their actions, the Boy Scouts, and all of the rest of the crap you posted after we destroyed your stance on Jefferson?

I've noticed that some people in these forums seem to believe that by "continuously" saying things like:

1) all the sidestepping

2) all the rest of the crap you posted

3) we destroyed your stance

-- that it verifies the truth of the statement. By "continuously" doing this ploy though, they are really insulting the intelligence of the readers because it implies that the readers aren't smart enough to make up their own minds about the contents of the forum. It also shows an intense bitterness for all things religious which is antithetical to the true American spirit. But when you think about it, the founder of the ACLU was at one time a communist and communism is certainly antithetical to the true American spirit. So we shouldn't be surprised.

 

[DOC]

I said it earlier - coming into this thread I only had a vague idea of Jefferson and the separation of church and state, this thread has taught me he fully supported the separation of church and state.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I'll just be happy if people read 20% of my 173 posts and then they can have an opinion too.

 

[Ducky]

I've noticed that some people in these forums seem to believe that by "continuously" saying things like:

1) all the sidestepping

2) all the rest of the crap you posted

3) we destroyed your stance

-- that it verifies the truth of the statement. By "continuously" doing this ploy though, they are really insulting the intelligence of the readers because it implies that the readers aren't smart enough to make up their own minds about the contents of the forum. It also shows an intense bitterness for all things religious which is antithetical to the true American spirit. But when you think about it, the founder of the ACLU was at one time a communist and communism is certainly antithetical to the true American spirit. So we shouldn't be surprised.

That's a nice try DOC, but anyone can read the topic, and anyone can read your own words, which I quoted, as to what the topic of this thread is.

Also, that's a nice Ad Hominem you have in there. I must be communist, and therefore antithetical to the American spirit, is that it?

 

[kmortis]

Let me put this through my DOC-filter....

...just as I thought. A sore loser.

 

[skeptifem]

I've noticed that some people in these forums seem to believe that by "continuously" saying things like:

1) all the sidestepping

2) all the rest of the crap you posted

3) we destroyed your stance

-- that it verifies the truth of the statement. By "continuously" doing this ploy though, they are really insulting the intelligence of the readers because it implies that the readers aren't smart enough to make up their own minds about the contents of the forum.

I noticed that you seem to believe that by 'continuously' saying things like:

1) thomas jefferson was a devout christian

2) the aclu is trying to change the religious faith of americans

3) prayer and religion prevents senseless murder

-- that it verifies the truth of the statement. By "continuously" doing this ploy though, you are really insulting the intelligence of the readers because it implies the readers are stupid enough to listen to such claims after so much evidence has been posted to disprove it.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

It also shows an intense bitterness for all things religious which is antithetical to the true American spirit. But when you think about it, the founder of the ACLU was at one time a communist and communism is certainly antithetical to the true American spirit. So we shouldn't be surprised.

Me??? A Communist???



You DO realize that you CAN be an atheist AND support free markets? The two positions are not mutually exclusive.

While I longer no consider myself a "conservative" and I left the GOP after college (about the same time I became an atheist), I've never once voted for or supported anyone who could be considered "left wing." (e.g. "American Liberal," "Socialist," "Marxist," "Communist," whatever you want to call them.) However, it just might be worth it just to keep theocratic wanna-bes such as yourself out of power.

Like I said a few hundred posts back, Red Baiting is soooo 1955.

 

[DOC]

I noticed that you seem to believe that by 'continuously' saying things like:

1) thomas jefferson was a devout christian

2) the aclu is trying to change the religious faith of americans

3) prayer and religion prevents senseless murder

-- that it verifies the truth of the statement. By "continuously" doing this ploy though, you are really insulting the intelligence of the readers because it implies the readers are stupid enough to listen to such claims after so much evidence has been posted to disprove it.

Regarding your above 1,2, and 3.

1) I never said he was a "devout" Christian. But even Jefferson himself claimed he was a Christian.

2) Never said they want to change the faith of Americans.

3)Never said prayer and religion prevents senseless murder, although I certainly believe there would be less of it in America if we still had voluntary prayer in public schools.