432 shows harmony of Sun, Moon, Earth Design

[Jiri]

Well, all this wrestling with pigs and the excursion into dietetic preferences of simians have been interesting, but I think there's still an outstanding issue for Jiri to address.

Jiri, the scientific validity of your analysis has been competently challenged. Have you a response?

You haven't enumerated your objections to the 'torso-system', and so this is about those raised by others, albeit in a rude and incompetent manner.
The four lines 'a','b','c','d' are the lines under attack. What are they? They are lines generated not from the engraved lines, but from the 'Square' in CAD, as major system lines. The system is well visible in the torso2.gif.

We see most of the Square. We see the Golden Ratio circles centered in the left and right corners of the Square. We see a tangential line to the top of the left hand G.R. circle from the right-corner of the Square. From the point where this line intersects the y-axis, we make two tangential lines to the lower part of each G.R. circle. Next, we draw a circle from this point, which passes through the 0,0 point of the x,y axes. This move yields at once four more corners of the star's ten corners, which allows us to complete it. I refer to this star as 'Pyrostar'.

We have simulated the lines 'a' and 'b' originally extrapolated from the engraving.In my opinion, this result is very satisfactory.
All four lines have been challenged, but only one seriously, line 'b'. The reason given, we can just see daylight between it and the engraved line. We can see it because the image is at over two times lifesize. Yes, it is an imperfection, and there are two more just above.
Go to lifesize drafting on the classical board, in the best light conditiions, and using the thinnest pen, still the pen line will smooth out the edge of the engraved line, to where the imperfections would be rendered invisible.
Next, look at the small circle centered in the upper tip of the star. Near its top we see an intersection between the circle, one central axis of the star, and the line 'd', as well as a line, which is perpendicular to the line 'c', and intersects it at the y-axis. We just have to remember that line 'd' holds the angle of 30 degrees with the x-axis, and the rest just follows.

We have recreated, or simulated the original lines 'c' and 'd'. Let's look at 'd' in about six times lifesize:

That's pretty good, don't you think?

And here is line 'c' under serious magnification, as regenerated from the Square


Does this clear up any objections? Obviously, manifestly, there is a strong relationship here between the engraving, and the geometrical system of the Pyrostar, and of course the Square to see.

 

[calebprime]

Post 1598 is the proverbial "picture worth a thousand words."
Jiri, you are still wondering why we don't see what leaps out to you.
It's simply that we don't see what isn't objectively there.

I think you have a good artist's eye and imagination. As many painters, scupters, and writers share, they find themselves drawn into a unique relationship with their subject in which it presents its "essence" to them...

...

I'm not saying there's something wrong with your imagination or your results have no value. But it's an "in the eye of the beholder" thing.

Science is a different discipline. It must offer up what every eye can clearly see to the senses and emperical investigation. Every eye must behold it or it has no use in the Science context.

We began this thread with DavidJayJordan inspired by Mathematics of a Platonic sort that seems to mesh in him with the ideals of his religion.
Ideals can grab us that way. Even hardnosed skpetics can be carried away by an ideology. Some personalities are prone to give ideals the priorty over the empirical. That's why fact after fact doesn't impress them, or cause them to ponder. Ideals, to them, are more real than facts. So it comes to an impass, as the skeptics insist on facts and evidence, and the believers insist on the subjective grasp of ideals.

Yes, I know. This is a simplistic parsing, like saying some people are from Mercury and others from Earth. But a little awareness of cognitive priorities and purposes might help us be a tad more tolerant of each other's process.

what hy said.

 

[Belz...]

That's pretty good, don't you think?

No. I don't think so.

The lines don't match up, and some of them you just made up.

 

[Jiri]

He isn't a "glowing beacon of haleness." He's thin, pale, and looks older for his age. It's ironic because he dishes out advice on nutrition. [His book: Healing With Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford).
Every vegan I know who is in the later middle years of life or beyond is rail thin and looks undernourished.

.
How many of your vegan friends have dropped dead suddenly of a heart attack, without even saying goodbye?
How likely are they to get colon cancer, or prostate? Almost none? HMM.

If you are doing fine with a vegan diet, congrats. Diet isn't a one size fits all thing. Just pay attention to your own body's needs and what keeps it in good stead.

And the Mother Planet be damned, as long as six billion people gets to have access to McDonald's

 

[Paulhoff]

.
How many of your vegan friends have dropped dead suddenly of a heart attack, without even saying goodbye?
How likely are they to get colon cancer, or prostate? Almost none? HMM.

One thing that is always left out, back in the good old old old days people didn't live long enough to died of a heart attack, something else got them first, and two, then your old and a woman you don't have children to living long has nothing to do with reproduction.

If we weren’t meat eaters then watching you diet wouldn't be a problem for your vegan friends.

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4777

Paul

 

[Jiri]

Why should it have exit points or go anywhere, if it does either of those it isn't "confined between edges of an engraved line".
.
You should know that the twain are fundamentally different. One line is finite, the other is infinitely long, hence it can only be confined by the sides of the engraved line, not its ends. Let's not insult reality.

If you were ignoring me, presumably for daring to question you in the first place, how did you know what I'd written?

I'm not bothering to talk to you, since I don't like personal attacks, which is what you have stooped to earlier. I still give a cursory reading to whatever you scribe.

 

[JonnyFive]

.
How many of your vegan friends have dropped dead suddenly of a heart attack, without even saying goodbye?
How likely are they to get colon cancer, or prostate? Almost none? HMM.

Do you have any links to published studies about the effect of a vegan/vegetarian diet on long term health complications? Have such studies even been done?

If so, any idea what the increased risk is, and over what time frame that risk applies?

ETA: By the way, I'm really looking for something that compares the diets and also factors in the health of the diet as well. That is, I'm not interested in a study showing that vegans that eat a nutrionally balanced diet will fare better, health-wise, than a non-vegan that gets all their meals from fast food joints and eats 7000 calories a day without excercising.

 

[Apathia]

.
How many of your vegan friends have dropped dead suddenly of a heart attack, without even saying goodbye?
How likely are they to get colon cancer, or prostate? Almost none? HMM.



And the Mother Planet be damned, as long as six billion people gets to have access to McDonald's

I'm certainly no proponent of the Ronald McDonald diet. I also don't support one diet for all based on religious or ideological positions. I do support whole grains, an avoidance of sugar infested junk food, and cutting back on meat.
Yes, statistically, there are less heart problems and cancers with vegetarians.
But I've seen vegies and vegans have their own health issues.
Listen to your body. I can't claim I listen enough, but I do pay attention.
And I'm not saying your body is New Age wise. But it does give you feedback.

 

[Jiri]

No

To see the rifle you have to look at elbow bent at the right angle, the inside of the arm and the side of the body. Those outlines simulate a rifle butt. The artist has you fooled as much as the people who see penises everywhere, even growing on a level with the rifleman's knee Can't see the rifle because of one cartridge?

 

[Jiri]

With DJJ on hiatus, it seems Jiri has taken it upon himself to supply the missing injections of arrogance.

Your absence was ten times longer than mine. You must be ten times as arrogant. Oh, such a burden to bear, brutal bruto.

 

[Jiri]

I'm certainly no proponent of the Ronald McDonald diet. I also don't support one diet for all based on religious or ideological positions. I do support whole grains, an avoidance of sugar infested junk food, and cutting back on meat.

.
Let's not forget that wars are basically fought to satisfy male craving for hamburger.

Yes, statistically, there are less heart problems and cancers with vegetarians.
But I've seen vegies and vegans have their own health issues.
Listen to your body. I can't claim I listen enough, but I do pay attention.
And I'm not saying your body is New Age wise. But it does give you feedback.

.
Wish, we could feed on that.

 

[Jiri]

Do you have any links to published studies about the effect of a vegan/vegetarian diet on long term health complications? Have such studies even been done?

If so, any idea what the increased risk is, and over what time frame that risk applies?

ETA: By the way, I'm really looking for something that compares the diets and also factors in the health of the diet as well. That is, I'm not interested in a study showing that vegans that eat a nutrionally balanced diet will fare better, health-wise, than a non-vegan that gets all their meals from fast food joints and eats 7000 calories a day without excercising.

sorry, but if possible, find a book published in 1919 by Alfred McCaan - the Science of Eating. He was a biochemist working as a prosecutor in federal lawsuits against giant food companies. He never lost a case. The read is just hilarious, and it was a heavensent I found just days after going veggie. The cruiser Kaiser Wilhelm case is just unbelievable. It had to pull into the Boston harbour on account of utter lack of able bodied men aboard..

 

[Jiri]

Actually, it is a dishonest move coupled with an evasion. Your statement, Jiri, was that the great pyramids looked good as new. They don't. Moreover, the original proposition that the typical skyscraper was more utilitarian than the typical pyramid was countered with your whole "good as new" ruse.

So, you evaded the first issue, and now you are dodging and weaving to cover for your dishonesty now. Is this really the style of argument you wish to present?

Were you drunk when writing this rubbish?

 

[Jiri]

The above is a good illustration of your dishonesty in debating. You know that the great pyramids had been stripped of their stone mantles, one could say 'skinned alive'.
Until these despiccable acts the pyramids were reported to look still like new.
The fact should surprise no one, since high quality limestone, and granite are very durable.

How about some citations? I did some research and discovered that Abd al Latif reported that most, not all, most, of the outer casing stones were intact in the 12th century. In other words. while the pyramids still looked pretty good they did not look "brand new".

Again, do a little research. The only granite in the pyramids at Giza was used to line interior hallways.

Really? Apparently, the mantle of Khefren's pyramid was/is granite, and there may be a lot of granite blocks in the lower levels there as well. Also the blocks in the five deilings of the King's Chamber are granite.
The Great Pyramid has been reported in a perfect new like condition right up to the arrival of Arabs. Even the story of the Pyramid's opening seems to attest to that.
Of course, once we strip a pyramid of its mantle, it's going to suffer. Meidum's core, however is another story.

 

[Belz...]

.
Let's not forget that wars are basically fought to satisfy male craving for hamburger.

What ?

sorry, but if possible, find a book published in 1919 by Alfred McCaan

Yeah, sure. That'll do it.

 

[Paul]

this is about those raised by others, albeit in a rude and incompetent manner.

I think the words you're looking for are embarassingly easy and accurate manner.

The four lines 'a','b','c','d' are the lines under attack. What are they? They are lines generated not from the engraved lines, but from the 'Square' in CAD, as major system lines.

That's not what you said when you posted "To translate apparently free-hand lines into exact lines, we have to come up with some method." and then looked at categories of line making including "Line confined between edges of an engraved line"

We see most of the Square.

Arbitrarily created with your arbitrary axes.

We see the Golden Ratio... blah blah nonsense removed blah ...I refer to this star as 'Pyrostar'.

Your intial foundation is unjustified and all that follows is therefore false.

We have simulated the lines 'a' and 'b' originally extrapolated from the engraving.In my opinion, this result is very satisfactory.

Your opinion on this matter is demonstrably worthless and and carries no weight here.

All four lines have been challenged, but only one seriously, line 'b'. The reason given, we can just see daylight between it and the engraved line. We can see it because the image is at over two times lifesize. Yes, it is an imperfection, and there are two more just above.

I have highlighted your minor imperfection for you, do you have any reason why we should take you seriously if you continue to misrepresent your work in this way?

Go to lifesize drafting on the classical board, in the best light conditiions, and using the thinnest pen, still the pen line will smooth out the edge of the engraved line, to where the imperfections would be rendered invisible.

You used a computer and CAD software, you have no excuse for inaccuracies of this type.

We just have to remember that line 'd' holds the angle of 30 degrees with the x-axis, and the rest just follows.

Your d is indeed at 30 degrees, however, a more accurate measurement of d yields 33 degrees, what just follows from that?

We have recreated, or simulated the original lines 'c' and 'd'. Let's look at 'd' in about six times lifesize:... image removed ...That's pretty good, don't you think?

No, I think it's a dishonest attempt to force your preconceived ideas onto an inappropriate subject.

Note the obvious second line, laying parallel to d, which you have either deliberately or incompetently used to obtain your desired results.

Does this clear up any objections?

Nope, until your actually read the objections and asses their implications carefully, your ideas will be worthless save for entertainment value.

Obviously, manifestly, there is a strong relationship here between the engraving, and the geometrical system of the Pyrostar, and of course the Square to see.

Obviously, and indeed manifestly, there is not, otherwise there would be posts agreeing with you and supporting your ideas.

 

[jimbob]

put a skyscraper along side a pyramid and tell me which one is more functional, a pyramid is a great waste of material.

Waiting .................................... waiting
with just a millenium gone what would scrape skies is looking up at daisies, but the pyramid still looks brand new.

Silbury Hill is also still here, and is dated to roughly the same era as the Great Pyramid. (Earliest parts 2750 ±95 BC)

Maybe they too had some mystical technology that only manifested itself in the ability to make big piles earth and stones?

Archeologists have found antler fragments. Antlers have been used as picks, so I think it is safe to say that simple technology was used to make this hill.​

Or maybe there is another reason for this. Both are essentially heaps or piles of material. It would take a significant flood to wash one of the pyramid stones away. What would an earthquake do? Make the stones fall into a heap?


The Pantheon is nearly two millenia old and hasn't fallen down yet.

Many of the European Cathedrals are about 1000 years old and are still standing, and they are hollow. (I strongly recommend a visit to Durham Cathedral if you are ever in the North East of England).

Jim

 

[jsfisher]

You haven't enumerated your objections to the 'torso-system', and so this is about those raised by others, albeit in a rude and incompetent manner.

Actually, I did enumerate my objections in an earlier post. The post to which you responded was meant as a *bump* of the prior. Here's the main text from the original:

Jiri, ReligionStudent has a valid point. It is valid on at least two counts.

The first is basic scientific process. You have a hypothesis: Mathematical insight and knowledge of an ancient culture can be deduced from the artwork of the culture. (Please, correct that if you feel it misrepresents your hypothesis.) The next step would be experimentation. The most obvious experiments would evaluate artwork of known-mathematical cultures and of known-non-mathematical cultures. You seem to be assuming your hypothesis correct without the pesky work in the middle to validate your hypothesis.

The second is algorithmic ambiguity. Your algorithm for adding lines isn't. (Isn't an algorithm, that is.) The experimenter has too much latitude deciding where lines may be drawn and which lines are to be included. In short, it is an artistic rather than a mechanical process.

 

[bruto]

To see the rifle you have to look at elbow bent at the right angle, the inside of the arm and the side of the body. Those outlines simulate a rifle butt. The artist has you fooled as much as the people who see penises everywhere, even growing on a level with the rifleman's knee Can't see the rifle because of one cartridge? [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_1557746294ceaa2dbf.gif[/qimg]

I don't see a rifle. There is absolutely no reason to see that thing as a rifle unless one wishes for rifles. When I see a picture like that, drawn in an age when stone axes were known to exist, and there exists not even the slightest whit of physical evidence for the mechanical, metallurgical or chemical skills needed to make a rifle, and not even the slightest whit of evidence that rifles, bullets, or the tools used to make them existed (while abundant evidence of stone tools remains), I would think it many many times more likely to be a stone axe than a rifle, especially since it looks more like a stone axe than like a rifle. That picture constitutes zero evidence of rifles.

 

[ReligionStudent]

sorry, but if possible, find a book published in 1919 by Alfred McCaan - the Science of Eating. He was a biochemist working as a prosecutor in federal lawsuits against giant food companies. He never lost a case. The read is just hilarious, and it was a heavensent I found just days after going veggie. The cruiser Kaiser Wilhelm case is just unbelievable. It had to pull into the Boston harbour on account of utter lack of able bodied men aboard..

Yay out of date reference!