July 7th 'conspiracy'

[Undesired Walrus]

Hi there. I am sure there is a lot of conspiracy theories about 7/7, and perhaps you can inform me,
But a lot has been made of this dude sitting next to Abu Hamza..

being part of British MI6/5 intelligence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haroon_Rashid_Aswat

Now, given that this is from unconfirmed sources.. I dont think much could be read into it, but I wonder if any of you had knowledge or thoughts that will crush this little dangerous flower. The thing I worry about july 7th, is that it was a lot less big than 9/11. The bigger something is, the easier to debunk. But I am worried Alex Jones will cling onto small things like this, with little facts, and they will be harder for those to refute, and easier for him to lie.

 

[8den]

What evidence is there that he worked for MI5

 

[Undesired Walrus]

I think this http://www.officialconfusion.com/77/mastermind/aswat/250905newcrimaswatfbithreat.html is all they have going.
That said, we do not have much evidence against this fact, so it would be nice to collect some to conter any ignorance that may be surrounding this "Conspiracy" in MI5. However, how anyone who can be planning to set up training camps in Oregon for fighters is also working for MI5 is beyond me...

 

[brodski]

Why “MI6” (SIS) would have an interest in internal UK matters(such as 7/7) is beyond me, as they are strictly an external intelligence service.

There is the allegation that he was a Security Service asset (MI5 hasn’t existed since the 1950’s but the name suck). There is no credible evidence that he was “part of MI5/6” (which would indicate he was an operative, rather than an informant)

After 9/11 the British Security Service made a concerted effort to recruit young Muslim men as informants to keep an eye on potential terrorists, they targeted young men attending some of the more radical Mosques, however it was notoriously difficult to recruit from those groups (especially as British Intelligence traditionally focused its recruitment on Oxbridge graduates). The effect of a lack of informants in key organisations and groups meant that the Security Service had to find “assets” where they could, including those who would be possible “double agents” (working against British inertest whilst pretending to be informants)

I find it much more likely that if there where intelligence links between the UK and the 7/7 bombers then it was the terrorist who where manipulating eth Security Service rather than vice versa. The terrorists had clear motives, the Security Service none.

Of course getting any accurate information about the Security and Secret Intelligence Services is tricky, given the way that the official Secrets Act works.

 

[peteweaver]

I've been working on an article debunking conspiracy theories about 7/7

http://www.infowhores.co.uk/7-7-2005.html

I havent really gone into any details about aswat because the press never made a big thing about him over here. The ringleader seems to have been Mohammad Siddique Kahn, and whilst there have been recent arrests in Beeston of people accused of helping the London bombers, it still appears that Kahn not Aswat was the ringleader.

Anyway check my article see what you think...

 

[Civilized Worm]

What would the motive have been? All it did was get people more pissed off at the war in Iraq.

 

[8den]

What would the motive have been? All it did was get people more pissed off at the war in Iraq.

Yeah that one gets to

"To control our freedoms!"

How?

These new anti terrorist laws.

I then point out to troofter in the UK & Ireland that both states have had draconian anti terror laws on their statute books for decades, thanks to the IRA and Unionist terrorists.

 

[brodski]

What would the motive have been? All it did was get people more pissed off at the war in Iraq.

Alex Jones (in “terrorstorm”) claims that the July Bombing where designed to drum up support for Blair (and the labour party) before the 2005 elections.
Unfortunately for this “reasoning” Blair’s approval rating went down after the bombings and the 2005 elections where held on the fifth of May…

 

[8den]

Alex Jones (in “terrorstorm”) claims that the July Bombing where designed to drum up support for Blair (and the labour party) before the 2005 elections.
Unfortunately for this “reasoning” Blair’s approval rating went down after the bombings and the 2005 elections where held on the fifth of May…

Another claim is that they were designed to distract attention from the g8 submit in gleneagles. Idiocy of the highest order, several hundred thousand people marched there they day beforehand

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Another conspiracy theory is that Jones says "Nobody saw an asian man on the bus"...

Sorry? This is London Alex, one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world, not Austin. If you see an asian guy on public transport, it isn't really going to surprise you. Everyone simply blends in with each other.

 

[wunky]

I read an article that a lot of people plan on getting married on that day- could it be tied to some religious conspiracy???

 

[peteweaver]

Another conspiracy theory is that Jones says "Nobody saw an asian man on the bus"...

Sorry? This is London Alex, one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world, not Austin. If you see an asian guy on public transport, it isn't really going to surprise you. Everyone simply blends in with each other.

Exactly.

Alex Jones see's conspiracies everywhere (except where there actually is one). All he's doing is making a false alibi for four murderers.

 

[Brainster]

I've been working on an article debunking conspiracy theories about 7/7

http://www.infowhores.co.uk/7-7-2005.html

I havent really gone into any details about aswat because the press never made a big thing about him over here. The ringleader seems to have been Mohammad Siddique Kahn, and whilst there have been recent arrests in Beeston of people accused of helping the London bombers, it still appears that Kahn not Aswat was the ringleader.

Anyway check my article see what you think...

Good start. We covered Terrorstorm here. You should find debunkings of some of the individual claims there.

 

[Civilized Worm]

Yeah that one gets to

"To control our freedoms!"

How?

These new anti terrorist laws.

I then point out to troofter in the UK & Ireland that both states have had draconian anti terror laws on their statute books for decades, thanks to the IRA and Unionist terrorists.

And any recent measure introduced were brought in after 9/11.

Then again there are also loonies who think the Madrid bombing was an inside job. Yeah, lot of good that did them.

 

[8den]

And any recent measure introduced were brought in after 9/11.

The argument often is "they needed to update the legislation" Like the police in the UK didn't get to invent a whole host of laws after the illegal rave scene kicked off. The government doesn't need to create situations in order to bring in absurd laws, are CTers going to claim, "E"'s and illegal raves are a government smoke screen?

Then again there are also loonies who think the Madrid bombing was an inside job. Yeah, lot of good that did them.

Sickening.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Exactly.

Alex Jones see's conspiracies everywhere (except where there actually is one). All he's doing is making a false alibi for four murderers.

What I find amazing is that if the government had pulled off this conspiracy, by unbelievable coincidence, 4 guys actually DID get on public transport and try to blow themselves up only 2 weeks later.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2007/21_july_trial/default.stm

 

[brodski]

What I find amazing is that if the government had pulled off this conspiracy, by unbelievable coincidence, 4 guys actually DID get on public transport and try to blow themselves up only 2 weeks later.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2007/21_july_trial/default.stm

To play devils advocate for a moment, the 21/7 bombings could fit into to a conspiracy scenario.
Imagine that CI5 carried out eth 7/7 bombings, and this inspired a group of nutters to carry out their own attack, however as the 21/7 terrorists didn’t have state backing they were not equipped to carry out an effective attack.

The fact that there is no evidence of Bodie and Doyle being involved in 7/7 is what shoots this conspiracy down.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Bodie and Doyle

Who?
I thought of that "Copy cat" thing as well, but given that they had the same original device (Hydrogen Peroxide and flour) with a similar detonator, and that Muktar Ibrahim

was in Pakistan at the same time as july 7 Sidique Khan, it seems likely they were linked.
However, it would have made more sense if they were from leeds instead of London, and to play a bit of a racial card, all 5 of the 21/7 guys are african muslims who immigrated over here while july 7th guys were homegrown brits in leeds.

I have understood how much anger now you guys in america must feel for Alex Jones now. Are there any other Londoners here who feel real anger towards a guy who just flys over here and makes a half-baked 'documentary' (That I have seen now) that he thinks dismantles all the hard work done by the British security services? Despite the major crap-ups by the heads (Given Jean De Paul Menezes tragic shooting) of the police, was anyone else amazed by the efficiency of the security services, especially getting the 21/7 bombers?

I see July 7th as a very sad event in which nobody like Jones should be able to dismantle and blame on the government, as it distracts the real failure of British society. I remember being absolutely blown away that they were born and bred in Leeds and delivered matyrdom videos in a yorkshire accent, not from some far flung place in the middle east. And they managed to kill quite a few muslims in the process... Did anyone see the BBC program when some Muslim victim travels to Leeds and speaks with Hasib Hussains father?

 

[brodski]

Who?

Bodie and Doyle where the main agents in “the Professionals” a UK 70’s /80’s TV series, they worked for “CI5”.
And yes I am British (and living in London) and Alex Jones pisses me off- he’s profiteering from terrorism, however David Shayler pisses me off more, he not only profiteers from terrorism, but he commuted treason in order to get a book deal.



A guy I knew was at Tavastock Square, and it really messed him up.
I wasn’t in London on 7/7, but I was for 21/7.

 

[sleahead]

Has anyone ever seen a conspiracy theorist opining on the 21/7 attempted bombing? I haven't, though I might have missed it. There seems to be a deathly silence from the CTs on this one. I think that the conspiracy theorists like their perpertrators to be dead. Any CT on the 21/7 event has been severely embarrassed by the admissions these men have made during the course of the trial.