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20 People Shot Dead on Virginia Tech Campus

This gives some insight into crime rates in the US and UK. The US has higher murder and rape rates, and the UK has higher rates of burglary, assault and vehicle theft rates. But, as already said, it is very difficult to compare these figures. For example, there is a possibility that more assaults in the US are armed and end up being murders.
 
I can't believe this guy's "maniphesto," his poetry as it were, being broadcast on all the channels like he was friggin' Allen Ginsburg.

As I writer, I have to push so hard and promote my azz off just to get a dinky 300 word article into a newspaper and it still takes half a year. And I am one of the lucky ones. This wack-job's words are now known all over the world. They are discussing not just his words, but his combat clothes, hair, facial expressions. Pitty that it is tough for so many of us to get the littlest bit of recognition for positive artistic contributions to society. Then this comes along and there is plenty of room in the newspapers and on the air.

OK. It is true he ain't around to "enjoy" the big show. But he seems to be touted as some sick roll model, and I worry that others will copy-cat him.


Agreed.
 
But he seems to be touted as some sick roll model, and I worry that others will copy-cat him.
Can't agree with that. Did his manifesto include anything indicating he admired and was emulating the Amish school shooter? Did the Amish school shooter's suicide note include anything indicating he admired and was emulating the Columbine shooters? Did the Columbine shooters leave behind anything indicating they admired and were emulating the University of Texas sniper?

Madness finds its own reasons, reasons which leave the rest of us agape, stunned, and baffled. Cho's rant was full of those reasons. The next guy will have his own reasons, hatched by his own demons.
 
I can't believe this guy's "maniphesto," his poetry as it were, being broadcast on all the channels like he was friggin' Allen Ginsburg.

As I writer, I have to push so hard and promote my azz off just to get a dinky 300 word article into a newspaper and it still takes half a year. And I am one of the lucky ones. This wack-job's words are now known all over the world. They are discussing not just his words, but his combat clothes, hair, facial expressions. Pitty that it is tough for so many of us to get the littlest bit of recognition for positive artistic contributions to society. Then this comes along and there is plenty of room in the newspapers and on the air.

OK. It is true he ain't around to "enjoy" the big show. But he seems to be touted as some sick roll model, and I worry that others will copy-cat him.

Well, at least now you know how to gain publicity.

At first I thought people may be going overboard by talking about "free publicity", but the more things go along, the more I find it revolting...

Don't get me wrong, I can see why people are curious. A man just shot up a school, and people want to know the mindset of the killer. It's partly intrigue; I mean, why do people like Hannibal Lecter, an intelligent serial killing cannibal, fascinate us? Because they're different, they're scary, they're "out there", and you know now that, when they talk about death and killing and any of that in any fiction they create, they're really talking killing IRL as well.

But the thing that frightens me the most isn't the curiosity. It's trying to get a "personality profile".

How many kids will end up "looked into closely" because they write violent fiction after this? How many kids will be looked at with fear because they're "different" now? The media is going with a frenzy, and it's the same kind of frenzy that ended up with the Zero Tolerance policy.

I don't mind giving a serial killer attention as much as I mind harrasing innocent students because they fit some vague "profile" that can fit millions of other Americans.
 
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Well, at least now you know how to gain publicity.


Yep.


Lonewulf said:
How many kids will end up "looked into closely" because they write violent fiction after this? How many kids will be looked at with fear because they're "different" now? The media is going with a frenzy, and it's the same kind of frenzy that ended up with the Zero Tolerance policy.

I don't mind giving a serial killer attention as much as I mind harrasing innocent students because they fit some vague "profile" that can fit millions of other Americans.


You have a point, especially as people keep saying, "Why didn't they (the university) do more?" Virginia Tech did what it should/could with a person who was clearly outside the bounds of even the more "different" students, and they're still being raked over the coals. Good grief.
 
...snip...

I don't mind giving a serial killer attention as much as I mind harrasing innocent students because they fit some vague "profile" that can fit millions of other Americans.

I remember after the Columbine tragedy the "they played video games" came out as if it was something unusual that should have helped spot the danger beforehand - at the time I think it was about 85% of all lads played video game.
 
You have a point, especially as people keep saying, "Why didn't they (the university) do more?" Virginia Tech did what it should/could with a person who was clearly outside the bounds of even the more "different" students, and they're still being raked over the coals. Good grief.

There's blame all over. I don't think the university could have been fully responsible for Cho. It is not the school's responsible to peer into every bit of student's lives, draw conclusions, and then react based off of that.

In this case, they did that, knowing his mental health issues. But the people that work at VT do not have professional training at dealing with "special" cases like Cho (as far as I know), and do not have the same certificates as, say, those that work in mental health hospitals.

It's as if people expect schools to be mental health clinics, adopted parents, etc. It's just not feasable, especially with all of the contradictory laws that prohibit instructors from doing practically anything with students.

(One instructor, for my del mar GED class, couldn't even give me a ride when I needed it; which was mind-boggling to me! The reason was because "fraternization" might lead to sexual abuse, but ****... I was bigger than the guy and could probably have kicked his arse if I wanted to. Stupid people).
 
Virginia's gun laws (and any others that "function" like them) are a joke. This guy's mental health history, by law, should have prevented him from buying a gun, but the law relied on his word. Stupid. Just stupid.

Much like the questions you are asked regarding your luggage at the airport.

Q: Did you pack your own luggage?

A: No Mohammed and Ali helped me pack.

Q: Was your luggage always in your possession?

A: Yeah, except for the half hour when Habib took it downstairs for me.

Too many things depend on the honor system without taking into consideration people who have less than honorable intentions.
 
Much like the questions you are asked regarding your luggage at the airport.

Q: Did you pack your own luggage?

A: No Mohammed and Ali helped me pack.

Q: Was your luggage always in your possession?

A: Yeah, except for the half hour when Habib took it downstairs for me.

Too many things depend on the honor system without taking into consideration people who have less than honorable intentions.

With experience, you can possibly tell when someone is nervous or lying as they answer those questions.

That's how I'd see it for that policy theory, at least. In practice, the officials probably are too tired and bored to actually pay attention much.
 
Much like the questions you are asked regarding your luggage at the airport.

Q: Did you pack your own luggage?

A: No Mohammed and Ali helped me pack.

Q: Was your luggage always in your possession?

A: Yeah, except for the half hour when Habib took it downstairs for me.

Too many things depend on the honor system without taking into consideration people who have less than honorable intentions.
That's different, these questions are meant to uncover cases where terrorists are putting bombs (or drugs) in the baggage of law-abiding citizens, who would likely tell the truth, I'm not convinced it helps much, but it is still different. What is comparable is the Dell "are you going to use this computer for terrorism or WMD?" question.
 
Too many things depend on the honor system without taking into consideration people who have less than honorable intentions.

True.

That's different, these questions are meant to uncover cases where terrorists are putting bombs (or drugs) in the baggage of law-abiding citizens, who would likely tell the truth, I'm not convinced it helps much, but it is still different. What is comparable is the Dell "are you going to use this computer for terrorism or WMD?" question.

Whaaattt?

You get asked that when you buy a Dell?
 
I don't try to change the UK, nor do I attempt to act superior to the UK. And I get tired of people who continually flaunt how "superior" their system is, and how the U.S. needs to change everything to imitate the UK. And then they criticize Americans for doing the same.

Not to point a finger at anyone in particular, and certainly not acting superior to anyone in the UK, but armed violence appears to be alive and well among the British - I believe it's more a matter of human psychology than human ingenuity:

Knives rule the playgrounds as inter-racial violence soars


Pupils across the country are scared - scared of children from other ethnic backgrounds and of the blades that are now being used with terrifying regularity. Anushka Asthana and Mark Townsend report on the tensions that threaten to turn playgrounds into battlegrounds

Sunday June 4, 2006
The Observer

Fridays were the most scary. 'Twenty kids would wait for me at the school gates and beat me up. Once they put me on the floor and stamped on my head. It started when I was 12.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1789973,00.html


And . . .

The vagaries of UK knife crime statistics

By John Steele, Crime Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:36am GMT 20/03/2007

Up to 60,000 young people, mostly male, may be stabbed and injured each year, the equivalent of more than 160 victims a day, according to a worst-case estimate for knife violence in England and Wales.

On the other hand, the figure may be around 22,000 each year for victims aged 10 - 25-year-old.

The different between the two estimates - derived from the questioning of around 600 under-25s about whether they had been "knifed or stabbed", and then extrapolated to the wider population, with all the statistical vagaries that entails - reflects the lack of precise information about the scale of knife crime in England and Wales.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/20/nknife320.xml

and . . .


August 9, 2006
Knife attacks surge 73% as amnesty fails


THE number of crimes involving knives on the streets of England and Wales has risen dramatically in the past year, with huge increases in their use during robberies, mugging and violent attacks on strangers.
Attacks in which a knife was used during a mugging rose by 73 per cent while there was a 55 per cent increase in random attacks with knives on strangers.

A report accompanying the figures from the British Crime Survey accuses John Reid, the Home Secretary, of presiding over an incoherent strategy to tackle the problem and of resorting to knee-jerk legislative responses.

“Government and the police lack a coherent, evidence-based, reasoned strategy for dealing with knife carrying and knife-related offences,” the report from the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies at King’s College London said.

“There is insufficient evidence that a knife amnesty or increasing sentence length for carrying knives will decrease the level of knife use and carrying.”

The surge in knife crime on the streets comes after a decade of decline. Ministers will hope that the increases disclosed in the report are a blip rather than a reversal of what had been a downward trend since 1995.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article603869.ece


Firearms aren't the problem - gun control isn't the answer. The problem is people who don't hesitate to use violence, intimidation or threats to prey upon those they see as defenseless. Firearms are a relatively new invention in the history of crime. In my opinion, they at least allow the feeble or those usually seen as defenseless an equalizer that most criminals recognize.
 
You get asked that when you buy a Dell?
I didn't. I got asked:
  1. Are you going to use this computer to download pornography?
  2. If so, can you tell us your favorite sites?
  3. Do you know any sites where they have women having sex with cabbages? We really really really like that kind of stuff...
 
I didn't. I got asked:
  1. Are you going to use this computer to download pornography?
  2. If so, can you tell us your favorite sites?
  3. Do you know any sites where they have women having sex with cabbages? We really really really like that kind of stuff...


:D

And how did you respond?
 
That's different, these questions are meant to uncover cases where terrorists are putting bombs (or drugs) in the baggage of law-abiding citizens, who would likely tell the truth, I'm not convinced it helps much, but it is still different. What is comparable is the Dell "are you going to use this computer for terrorism or WMD?" question.

I would still think that most terrorists would be smart enough (if they WERE actually going to hide a bomb in someone's luggage) to do it without the knowledge of the traveler, so the questions are still moot.

I didn't know that Dell computer buyers were subjected to this type of questioning. I wonder what the rationale behind the suspicions stems from, and couldn't it just as easily be applied to cell phones, cigarette lighters, alarm clocks, GPS devices and rubber novelties?
 
I didn't. I got asked:
  1. Are you going to use this computer to download pornography?
  2. If so, can you tell us your favorite sites?
  3. Do you know any sites where they have women having sex with cabbages? We really really really like that kind of stuff...

:) Cabbages, knickers, it's not got a beak. ;)
 
Why do you want to know?

(And Katana wonders, "Was that how he responded, or is he asking me why I want to know...?")

:biggrin:

:p

(Katana wonders whether to dignify that with a response...Oh, wait. Damm.)
 
I remember after the Columbine tragedy the "they played video games" came out as if it was something unusual that should have helped spot the danger beforehand - at the time I think it was about 85% of all lads played video game.

You're right, various people always seem to want to draw the line between video games and mass murderers (Hillary Clinton is also on the violent video game bandwagon), but studies have proven over and over that it's not the people playing video games who are shooting people.

In fact, it's been proven that video games actually improve the hand/eye coordination of young users, help with problem-solving skills and help improve eyesight. My younger brother suffered a detached retina last year and his doctor actually recommended he play an hour or two of video games. He wouldn't, however, give him a prescription for an X-box 360. ;)
 

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