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9/11 on Google Earth

just loaded it and am learning to navigate around.


kewl!

The flight path certainly does not go to the north side of the Citgo as it passes by it.(at least not without some harrowing manouvers)
 
I had done some calculations about the g-forces involved in flying at 500 mph on the south side of the Sheraton, to the north of the Citgo, and back to the impact point on the Pentagon, and it would be about a 5-g turn, requiring a bank angle of over 70 degrees. Now that would be something witnesses would remember seeing, since that's very close to flying with the wings straight up and down.

Lyte's reaction was that we didn't know the speed it came in at. I guess he doesn't believe the FDR data, since that doesn't agree with the memory of his witnesses.
 
apathoid said:
edit2: Fingered it out, you can change the viewing altitude by right-clicking the "time plot" > View > hit "reset" button and manually enter the altitude in the "range" field. I tried actually changing the "AA77 FDR CSV's (v2.5)" viewing range instead of doing the individual times, but it doesnt seem to have any effect.
Click to expand...
Thanks, but where is the "time plot" that I'm supposed to right-click on? I don't see it anywhere. I accessed a few options in the Tools > Options > Touring window, but there was no "range" field there.
 
CurtC said:
I had done some calculations about the g-forces involved in flying at 500 mph on the south side of the Sheraton, to the north of the Citgo, and back to the impact point on the Pentagon, and it would be about a 5-g turn, requiring a bank angle of over 70 degrees. Now that would be something witnesses would remember seeing, since that's very close to flying with the wings straight up and down.

Lyte's reaction was that we didn't know the speed it came in at. I guess he doesn't believe the FDR data, since that doesn't agree with the memory of his witnesses.
Click to expand...



I believe that better calc is to show the speed required to complete the turn described by Lyte. That is, along the path he illustrates and at a 6 degree bank angle.

Seems to me it puts the plane at 100 MPH which is untenable both by eyewitness remarks about the speed of the aircraft and in the flight characteristics of a 757(it would need flaps down would it not, even if it could stay in the air at 100MPH? it would also be quite a feat to get it to then acellerate enough to pull up and over the Pentagon after making that 100 MPH turn)
 
CurtC said:
Thanks, but where is the "time plot" that I'm supposed to right-click on? I don't see it anywhere.
Click to expand...

I think we may be running different versions. In any case, you should be able expand the "aa77fdr Flight Data" entry in the Places menu. All the individual time plots/placemarks should then be in view. Depending on the version, there may be a "Properties" or a "View" dialogue after right-clicking any of the times. What you want to edit is the View tab and you may have to hit Reset or Snapshot current view to get the fields to unlock. Then you can manually enter Range(altitude), Heading, Tilt, and Lat/long.

I accessed a few options in the Tools > Options > Touring window, but there was no "range" field there.
Click to expand...

I can't seem to find any global range setting for the touring menu either. Maybe GE Plus has it?
 
Lyte Trip said:
So what is the altitude of the plane at the light poles?
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The plane never reaches the light poles. The last altitude is 513' about 1.25 miles away from impact. Thats from the Pilots for Truth data, not the 911myths data.
 
apathoid, I see what you were referring to with the range field. It would be nice if we could look at just the final few minutes' worth of data as an animation, and have some control over the view. But the "flight path" choices aren't expandable.

Anyway, I see that the data at the time of takeoff is off by about 0.6 miles from actual, mostly farther south than it should be. So how did the end get re-aligned to be headed right for the Pentagon? Was the path shifted so that the end lines up with where they think it should be? I'd like to understand how the data was placed.

It seems like it would be easier to put the Dulles data at the right spot, and let everything then be relative to that. It's easy to see where the plane turned a corner from taxiing, onto the active runway for takeoff, and we can pinpoint where that should have been within a few feet. But then that would mean that the finish point would be 0.6 miles farther north than where it is, and wouldn't be headed towards the Pentagon. Hey, maybe that was it and he then made a hard right turn and came in from a more northerly path?!?

I crack myself up. But seriously, what was the process of taking the FDR data and deriving lat/long info from that?
 
defaultdotxbe said:
more accurately, the instrument readouts for when the plane hit the poles was never recorded
Click to expand...

Why?



And even more precisely: the final altitude reading has the plane far too high to hit the light poles or damage the building as outlined in the ASCE report.
 
celestrin said:
Thanks for all the feedback.

Gumboot, what do you mean by wrong direction? Is the plane pointing backwards, or is it just slightly turned off of the direction of flight? If it's just slightly turned, that might be the drift (and/or yaw). There are some points in flight, particularly just after take off, when the plane drifts by almost 10°. It appears there was quite a wind upthere. If you popup a balloon for the particular position, there are three headings.

Track angle is actual flight direction. At least I think it should be. And it should comply with the flight path below. True heading is the direction, the plane's nose is, or should be, pointing at. Those are not neccessary the same, because of wind and/or rudder action by the pilot. The third heading is magnetic, but that's not used anywhere and it doesn't affect the position of plane models.

Pitch/Roll seem OK to me, but I do have to say I haven't been able to check each and every model up close. Is the roll wrong during the whole turn? Post some screenshots. Here's a few of my own.



Can you be more specific which models appear weird?

Apathoid, yes there is also radar alt, but I wanted to present the complete flight paths first. Rad alt works only to about 2500 ft, but I'm sure I don't have to tell you this. I've been following your and Anti-Sophist's posts and learned a lot. You guys put it more eloquently and precisely than I ever could and the terminology used is still a bit above my attention span :) That's why I can't explain why I think the Lat/Long data is only accurate to 1NM in precise language. Beachnut, has also posted some useful info. Well, at least when I was able to vaguely understand what he was talking about ;)

Sorry, Beachnut, I'm unable to parse your post above. Is it supposed to be a rant/critique of PfT in general or is it a critique of my presentation?

Gravy, you don't have Google Earth or does it fail to load? Or did the HQ get you stuck with a decade old, hand me down computer from our globalist depository? Well, that's for being a field operative. Should've had joined the Office Corps when you had a chance. Sure, counting socks is a bit tedious at times, but we get computers which are hardly 3 years old!

About "playing" the file. Animation, by flying behind the plane, is on my mind, I just have to come up with right trigonometry to adjust the view of each particular point. I'm not there yet. If you just want to play a particular section of the flight path, you'll have to copy or move those points, one by one, into some other folder and play them there.
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The rant part is about PFT use of any FDR and telling lies. Your presentation is excellent and it is easy to see how you can match the data to other evidence.

Is there a plane, and how does it work with a plane moving?

I was able to move around and look at the path relative to the area.

The LAT and LONG data was off by 2 or 3 thousand feet at take off. As Apathoid, said the accuracy could be .1 NM, but 2 to 3000 feet as seen on takeoff is fair. Apathoid also points out the FMC, the NAV information is updated, so the absolute offset at take off is not relative by the time 77 gets to DC. You can not apply the offset at take off to the LAT/LONG position from the FDR at the end.

The heading data is very reliable, and can be used without further correction. But the NAV data is not accurate to place the plane closer than 500 to 3000 feet of where the FDR has it.

There was a 1.5 DME reading from DCA VOR at the last data point presented in the PFT data set. Take that arc and the heading and there are only two positions possible for flight 77 on that 1.5 DME arc.
124474626a1aedc289.jpg

The 1.5 DME arc would be a circle around DCA VOR above, the VOR is on the right.

You can also say the heading did not change much at 463 KIAS with only gentle bank angles. As someone already said there would be a 70 degree plus bank angle to over fly the impact point if 77 or what ever was north of the CITGO station.

The model should use the magnetic heading for pointing the nose, the true track could be used to drive the direction of the model, and the plane should look like a boat, heading across the river but tracking down the river. No big deal, but if you want to see what the plane looked like, the mag, or true heading is where the nose is pointing, and the true track or mag track are where the plane is going over the ground, relative to the ground.

I am sorry about being so messed up posting ideas, I am doing some chores and trying to do about 4 or 5 things and hopefully dinner will not explode or burn down the house.

Good job!
 
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The eyewitnesses have already proven the FDR as invalid.

However if you choose to accept the FDR as valid you must admit that the plane was too high to hit the light poles or damage the building as outlined in the ASCE report.
 
Lyte Trip said:
Why?

And even more precisely: the final altitude reading has the plane far too high to hit the light poles or damage the building as outlined in the ASCE report.
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Hey man, you have no clue where 77 was. You and the CIT have failed to research 77 to figure out where the plane was. You do not know how many seconds of data are missing. Do you?

Lyte, the data was missing, not recorded. If you are going to accept your witnesses you must accept what they said in 2001 and thus make your story false. Comment on the this work and keep your false story on the other thread.

The data posted here confirms the witnesses, the physical evidence and the radar tapes and flight path study by the NTSB. You should study the FDR system more.
 
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Lyte Trip said:
Why?
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because the data is not stored directly to the tape, its stored in a buffer while its being written, someone here has said that results in a delay of up to 3 seconds

i assume the FDR data is stored on magnetic tape, this takes the longest amount of time to write to


And even more precisely: the final altitude reading has the plane far too high to hit the light poles or damage the building as outlined in the ASCE report.
Click to expand...
and how do you conclude that given that the FDR data didnt record that far?
 
beachnut said:
The data posted here confirms the witnesses, the physical evidence and the radar tapes and flight path study by the NTSB. You should study the FDR system more.
Click to expand...

So are you really suggesting that the final recorded altitude and speed of the plane shows that it is possible to hit the light poles?
 
Lyte Trip said:
So are you really suggesting that the final recorded altitude and speed of the plane shows that it is possible to hit the light poles?
Click to expand...



Forget it, Lyte. I live in Europe and I give a ◊◊◊◊ about
NWO, Neocons, Republicans and Democrats. Flight 77
crashed into the Pentagon and yes, Bush is an as***le
nevertheless. When will you understand this simple fact?
 
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