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On Experiencing Jim Fetzer

My research indicates that there were about 22 miles of core columns in the two towers. There were about 4800 of the 3x3 perimeter sections. We simply don't see anything remotely resembling that at ground zero. Guys, it's not like we're missing 1% or 5% or even 20%. We're missing at least 80%.
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When you consider that the volume of the WTC towers were mostly empty space, subtract most of the concrete (dustified, rubblized, disintegrated), consider the height of the pile (40'), the depth of the sub basements (70'), and the dispersed volume of the steel debris I think you will find you don't need to turn steel to dust.
 
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pomeroo said:
TruthSeeker1234 said:
My opinion that a significant amount of steel was dustified on 9/11 is based upon 4 mutually supporting lines of evidence:

1. The observed volume and implied density of the dust seen falling during the demolition events.
2. The observed volume of dust that coated lower Manhattan.
3. The videos and pictures which depict steel turning to dust.
4. The ground zero photos which fail to depict more than about 20% of the steel originally present.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/dustspire.gif


Pomeroo is speaking categorically about something which is fundamentally a matter of degree. No one is suggesting there was no steel at ground zero. Of course there was. There were "huge" piles of debris. "Huge", of course, is a relative term.


The statement that "we're missing at least 80%" is factually untrue. It is untrue by an order of magnitude that warrants labeling it as absurd.

Now, stop for a moment. You say A; A is untrue. Show us the process that begins at this point. Outline your thinking as you meet this challenge.
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My process for stating that 80% of the steel is missing is simply that we don't see it in the pictures which ought to depict it.

For example, consider the north wall of WTC1. By all accounts, the perimeter walls fell outwards. In this picture, north is to the left. The north wall would be all over WTC6, which is the hollowed out building here. It would be in Vesey street. But it isn't. We see a few 3x3 perimeter sections, but no where near the 600 missing. Where do you think they are?

911wtc6craterwestair.jpg
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You know

Gravy said:
Can't answer the question? I'll try again. Note that I didn't mention weaponry, conventional or not.

By what known process could 80% of the steel in the towers have been converted to dust or vapor in a matter of seconds?

Please simply answer the question if you can.
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Like when you leave food in the microwave for too long. ;)
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
pomeroo said:
My process for stating that 80% of the steel is missing is simply that we don't see it in the pictures which ought to depict it.

For example, consider the north wall of WTC1. By all accounts, the perimeter walls fell outwards. In this picture, north is to the left. The north wall would be all over WTC6, which is the hollowed out building here. It would be in Vesey street. But it isn't. We see a few 3x3 perimeter sections, but no where near the 600 missing. Where do you think they are?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/911wtc6craterwestair.jpg
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You have done nothing to show that you are qualified to interpret photographic evidence. Nor have you done anything to show that your interpretations are correct (corroborating evidence). Your claims are unsubstantiated and are, and shall continue to be, dismissed on that basis alone.
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ShiftingBuildingStudy.gif


Questions:

What is this phenomenon which I've been calling a mushroom cloud?
Why is it centered so far to the east of the center of the building?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
What is this phenomenon which I've been calling a mushroom cloud?
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Grrrr. Please provide a post completing the following steps:

1) State your definition of a mushroom cloud.
2) State the formal scientific definition of a mushroom cloud (don't just copy and paste from Wiki, explain it).
3) Explain why your definition differs, and why I should accept the differences.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
[qimg]http://www.acebaker.com/9-11/ShiftingBuildingStudy.gif[/qimg]

Questions:

What is this phenomenon which I've been calling a mushroom cloud?
Why is it centered so far to the east of the center of the building?
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Mushroom clouds tend to go UP. this one, created mostly by dustification of the concrete and drywall, sucked downward by the building collapse. Wind carries it off center.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
For example, consider the north wall of WTC1. By all accounts, the perimeter walls fell outwards. In this picture, north is to the left. The north wall would be all over WTC6, which is the hollowed out building here. It would be in Vesey street. But it isn't. We see a few 3x3 perimeter sections, but no where near the 600 missing. Where do you think they are?
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Watch the Fetzer shows and you'll learn where they are.
 
Dustified? You know your science is junk when you have to make up words.

Judy Wood was exposed by Greg Jenkins.

GJ: Has anything been done in the laboratory to show that steel can be turned to dust?

JW: Well ... erm... yes/

GJ: What?

JW: Well if you put something in the microwave and cook it extra long til its extra crispy.....
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
pomeroo said:
Analyzing photographic evidence is a nonsensical game to you?
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It is, manifestly, a nonsensical game to you.



According to official reports, all of the structural steel was recovered.
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So, your position is that the official reports are not merely wrong or suspect--they are fantastically wrong: They are wrong to a degree previously unencountered in the compilation of data. They are more wrong than the findings of a doctor who lists the birth weight of newborn human infant as one thousand four hundred pounds.

You further imply that not a single sane person has noticed this staggering anomaly.

Explain why these considerations bounce off your hide like balls of cotton.
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pomeroo;2532124 For once said:
NOT [/B]missing, and nobody thinks it was. How many tons of steel were recovered?
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This site http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html claims: 185,101 tons of structural steel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_site states: 181,400 tons of steel
This site http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ce_from_Ground_Zero_at_the_World_Trade_Center has two estimates: 300,000 tons of scrap metal and 200,000 tons of steel
Nova http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/innovation.html says: 200,000 tons

Throwing out the high (300,000) and low (181,400) and taking the avg of the remaining estimates we have: 195,034 tons

Assuming that 195,034 tons is 20% of the total steel (per Ace's claim), then the total steel in the towers would be:
N x .20 = 195,034
=> N = 195,034/.20
=> N = 975,170 tons of steel in the towers
=> 487585 tons of steel in each tower.

Given that the Nova site states each tower weighed 500,000 tons and the total debris hauled away was somewhere on the order of 1.8 million tons (iirc) I do not see how the estimate of only 20% remaining can be supported.
 
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