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20 People Shot Dead on Virginia Tech Campus

Thitical Crinker said:
Something I have often wondered when incidents like this happen: What if one of the faculty or students had an illegal firearm on them. Maniac enters classroom and starts slaughtering people. Said faculty member or student retrieves illegal firearm and kills maniac. How would this be handled?
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The question I keep asking myself is why didn't they have locks on the classroom doors?
 
parrotslave said:
The question I keep asking myself is why didn't they have locks on the classroom doors?
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They probably do have locks on the doors. I expect, however, that it takes a key to lock the door. The instructor might have one, might not.
 
shanek said:
I don't know of anyone who says they could do that 100% of the time, so cut out the strawmen. But there is a chance of it that wouldn't be there without the gun.
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Oh cut the bull****, the reason Texas has concealed carry is because of the emotional testimony of a Rep. who's parents died in the Luby's massacre where her entire point was if only she'd had her gun her parents might still be alive. When a similar situation presents itself a few years later, one of the few fatalities was the hero wannbe in the situation.

You know, you really need to drop Badenarak's horse**** mentality that if only we'd had armed citizens on airplanes 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

shanek said:
According to various studies, anywhere between 700,000 and 2,500,000 a year.
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Can you cite a single study suggesting 7 or 25 mass murders were averted because of concealed carry permits, much less 700,000 to 2,500,000? It's pegging my irony meter that I ask for something specific based on specific incidents and reply with a BS "various stuides" response while telling me I'm using a straw man when asking for specifics about individual mass murder events.
 
SirPhilip said:
That's exactly what I would have done; I don't see the particular risk involved either. If nobody sprung up to assist before I was tagged attempting to break the guy's neck or take out his vision, doom on them..
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So you say, sitting in your comfy sofa. The particular risk is that you get shot first. Me, I would play dead and hope he didn't notice. Later, while reflecting on my comfy sofa, I'd wish I'd rushed the bastard as well. And in my fantasy I wouldn't get killed either.
 
gumboot said:
However, it seems to me, any society where a significant chunk of the population feel they need to carry around weapons to protect themselves from other members of society is not, by any understanding of the word, "civilised".
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But your premise - that "a significant chunk of the population feel they need to carry around weapons to protect themselves from other members of society" - is wrong.

If it were true, lots of people would carry firearms around, because, as I've stated elsewhere, it's generally perfectly legal.

Do I feel that I'm generally safe? Yes, I do. Does that mean I believe there's no chance some wacko with a pistol could be lurking in the parking lot where I work, ready to start shooting for reasons known only to himself and the demons who drive him? Of course not; there's always that chance. But I evaluate that chance as being small, not worth the extra hassle of carrying a gun around (plus I'd probably get fired if I carried it into the building).

So, yes, I believe I'm safe, or at least safe enough that I don't regularly worry about it or carry a gun around for self-protection.

I also believe I would be safer if I carried a gun around. But the extra margin of safety isn't justified by the hassle factor.
 
Hmmm. I see there is a little gun control debate going on. Bound to happen. I wonder how many people here would still have their same opinions on gun control if they were put in the same situation as the kids during that shooting....If they saw their classmates being killed around them and bullets spraying everywhere, would they still in their minds think "Well I still support gun control banning people from carrying their weapons on campus even though that law has seemed to do nothing to stop this man from bringing one and it will not deter real criminals." or would they think "I am completely helpless! I have no means to defend myself and the law banning guns on campuses is COMPLETELY POINTLESS except for leaving me utterly defenseless!" Curious isn't it...I know one thing for sure though, anyone who was put in that situation would be MORE than happy to have had a gun on them.
 
Thitical Crinker said:
West Virginia has the same laws. While obtaining my permit, the instructor said that although it is legal to carry a weapon in the open, you would probably be arrested for disturbing the peace.
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Then there is a problem with your gun laws.
 
gumboot said:
Just offering my two cents...

I understand the reasons behind why Americans have the gun laws they do, and appreciate how the situation is unlikely to change any time soon. It's not my country, and if Americans want to carry guns, so be it.

However, it seems to me, any society where a significant chunk of the population feel they need to carry around weapons to protect themselves from other members of society is not, by any understanding of the word, "civilised".

-Gumboot
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Given the obvious fact that people do freak out and kill other people, I don't see anything un-civilised about wanting to be able to protect yourself from a loony - be it a loony with a gun, a machete, a samurai sword (happened here in Germany) or a fork.

The police cannot protect each and every individual. The best they can do is intervene in those cases when there's time for them to reach the scene. As the events in Virginia show, they cannot reach the scene fast enough all the time. Even having been on the scence when the events started, they could not prevent the further tragedies.
 
HarryKeogh said:
Or even happier if no one (including the bad guy) in that situation had a gun on them.
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Or chain, or sword or baseball bat or knife or machete. Or a stick of dynamite and a cigar to light the fuse.

If someone wants to kill, he'll do it. Lack of a gun may make him less effective, but it won't stop him.

A colleague used to tell about an incident that happened here in Germany. A lunatic with a machete killed three of the police officers sent to arrest him. He ran upon them with the machete held UNDERHAND with the edge up. Ran past the cop's gun hand, slammed the point of the machete into the cop's gut just above the pelvic bone and used the leverage to split them from pubis to breast bone. He got the first two, then another pair went after him (second squad car.) He got the first of that pair pretty quick, but the fourth cop saw how and kept the squad car between him and the machete dude whilst shooting at him.

People kill people. Weapons are just the tool.
 
BPSCG said:
Okay, exceptions:
  • "Does this dress make me look fat?"
  • "Do you think she's pretty?"
  • "Do you think she's prettier than I am?" (Answer: "Yes, but you're better in bed...")
  • "What are you thinking about?" (Answer: "If I wanted you to know, I'd be talking, not thinking...")
  • "If I died, would you remarry?" (Answer: "Not until she got a divorce, no...")
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I think facing an armed gunman might be easier than answering these questions. ;)
 
HarryKeogh said:
Or even happier if no one (including the bad guy) in that situation had a gun on them.
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Most likely happiest of all if there were no crazy dude trying to kill people.

That's what needs to be fixed - the desire that some people have to kill other people.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Hmmm. I see there is a little gun control debate going on. Bound to happen. I wonder how many people here would still have their same opinions on gun control if they were put in the same situation as the kids during that shooting....If they saw their classmates being killed around them and bullets spraying everywhere, would they still in their minds think "Well I still support gun control banning people from carrying their weapons on campus even though that law has seemed to do nothing to stop this man from bringing one and it will not deter real criminals." or would they think "I am completely helpless! I have no means to defend myself and the law banning guns on campuses is COMPLETELY POINTLESS except for leaving me utterly defenseless!" Curious isn't it...I know one thing for sure though, anyone who was put in that situation would be MORE than happy to have had a gun on them.
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Jack Bauer is a television character.
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
God's such a slacker. In the old days, he got every family's firstborn. Now, he just sends in an independent contractor for 30? Omnipotence ain't what it used to be, I guess.
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:) He's apparently realized that outsourcing is the cheaper way to go. It's also a great way to divert his guilt in the matter, since he can still delve out his will and reap the continued adoration from the inevitable memorial services.
 
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