20 People Shot Dead on Virginia Tech Campus

[TobiasTheViking]

That is good to hear. Do you think it is primarily due to metal detectors?

I believe it has been declining for the last 20 years.. so that is a no.

Crime, in general, in and out of school, has been on decline 10+ years, again a no.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm


Statistically the school is still the safest place for children to be, and it has been getting safer and safer.

try this:

* In 1998, students were about two times as likely to be victims of serious violent crime away from school as at school

* Between 1995 and 1999, the percentage of students who reported being victims of crime at school decreased from 10 percent to 8 percent

* Ninety percent of public schools reported no violent crime incidents in 1996-97.

* The most prevalent type of youth crime is theft, and the most common types of violence are fist fights, bullying and shoving matches.

* Overall, about 1,000 crimes per 100,000 students were reported in public schools, 950 of which were not serious or violent.

http://www.osba.org/hotopics/atrisk/bullying/stats.htm

 

[Quad4_72]

You seem to be suggesting this massacre was plotted in advance. What do you base that on?

Lol. Maybe he is basing it on the fact that the gunman brought a chain so that he could keep his victims in one place. Oh and maybe he is assuming that the guy does not stroll around everywhere with a shotgun, handgun, and LOTS of ammunition. Just my guess.

 

[Katana]

Before this thread itself turns into a crossfire of biases, allow me to become one of it's first moving targets. A few bullets:

• Violence is rooted in social values and culture. American culture has degenerated so far into decadence, it is surprising these events do not occur every week at workplaces and schools - and I say this as a proud gun owner.
• There is nothing that can be done to prevent future incidents like this. Like Iraq, it's an out of control fire that can't be fought, especially with more fire, and has to burn out. You also can't take the oxygen away.

How do school shootings "burn out"?

 

[TobiasTheViking]

ThinBlueLine your fear is very misplaced.

Dewey Cornell: They have reported these stats, but they don't gain much attention. You are right that there is more danger driving to school than being in school. Schools are safer than homes, statistically. We have over 2,000 children murdered each year in the U.S. Only about a dozen or so are murdered at school. If the media gave equal attention to every shooting in a restaurant, we would soon start fearing restaurants. We would talk about "restaurant violence." We would talk about "restaurant shooters." And unfortunately, some deranged and troubled individuals would be inspired to carry out restaurant shootings.

http://www.courttv.com/chat/transcripts/2006/1004schoolshootings-cornell.html

 

[TobiasTheViking]

ThinBlueLine another one before i go sleepies.. if you want better sources i have them.. I suggest you read "Media Mythmakers". A great book i picked up at TAM, and i loved all but one section of it.

The media spins it and makes it look like school shootings and violence is up, the facts don't agree. There is no real reason to be scared.

Kids are four times as likely to be hit by lightning as be a victim of a school shooting (Source, Penn and Tellers ******** - Safety Hysteria)

"There's no headline when there's no murder," he says, noting there's been no marked increase in serious violent incidents involving youth 12 to 17 years over the past 20 years.

http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/2006/05/violence.php

 

[ThinBlueLine]

I'm happy to inform you that school shotting have been steadily declining for the last many years....

Tobias: I just figured out that you are Tobias from the Autism Myths site! Thank you for your work. My son has autism (not Aspergers) and unfortunately, my ex-wife (his mother) continues to fall prey to many of the "magic bullet" cures despite that Damian is 16 years old and we've seen lots of bull$%%# come and go over the years. DMG supplements, Gluten free diet, dairy free diet, meat free diet, chiropractic, Reflexology, Lovaas Behavioral Modification (not without some merit), Discrete Trial Format, baby coconut milk (forget the name), crystals, aromatherapy, acedopholis, and many more. She even brought up chelation and I had to threaten her with court if she didn't leave off until some scientific evidence appeared. I understand desperation but she is ridiculous which I guess explains the EX in ex-wife! The battle continues but THANKS.

 

[Lonewulf]

modified to remove edited responses over actioned post

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

All of your points have been discussed, at tandem, and extensively in the past. I am not "missing" anything. I've thought all of these things through before, and I still find most of the claims over-estimated/over-exaggerated when it comes to firearms. There's nothing new here. Moving on.

 

[Katana]

Tobias: I just figured out that you are Tobias from the Autism Myths site! Thank you for your work. My son has autism (not Aspergers) and unfortunately, my ex-wife (his mother) continues to fall prey to many of the "magic bullet" cures despite that Damian is 16 years old and we've seen lots of bull$%%# come and go over the years. DMG supplements, Gluten free diet, dairy free diet, meat free diet, chiropractic, Reflexology, Lovaas Behavioral Modification (not without some merit), Discrete Trial Format, baby coconut milk (forget the name), crystals, aromatherapy, acedopholis, and many more. She even brought up chelation and I had to threaten her with court if she didn't leave off until some scientific evidence appeared. I understand desperation but she is ridiculous which I guess explains the EX in ex-wife! The battle continues but THANKS.

Cool!

Way to go, Tobias.

And welcome, TBL!

 

[SirPhilip]

How does this "burn out"?

It's a product of sociocultural inertia. Societies and civilizations are only held together by a commonality between individuals, people collectively set into motion conditions which erode that commonality, these events become more likely. Even irrespect of it, there's a fair chance someone with a chip on their shoulder will go postal.

 

[TobiasTheViking]

Tobias: I just figured out that you are Tobias from the Autism Myths site! Thank you for your work. My son has autism (not Aspergers) and unfortunately, my ex-wife (his mother) continues to fall prey to many of the "magic bullet" cures despite that Damian is 16 years old and we've seen lots of bull$%%# come and go over the years. DMG supplements, Gluten free diet, dairy free diet, meat free diet, chiropractic, Reflexology, Lovaas Behavioral Modification (not without some merit), Discrete Trial Format, baby coconut milk (forget the name), crystals, aromatherapy, acedopholis, and many more. She even brought up chelation and I had to threaten her with court if she didn't leave off until some scientific evidence appeared. I understand desperation but she is ridiculous which I guess explains the EX in ex-wife! The battle continues but THANKS.

Hihi, thanks, sadly the page is mostly down right now.. i can't really do much, if anything, on it for the rest of the month, maybe longer

 

[Katana]

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Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[shuize]

The Virginia legislature kills a bill that would allow people to defend themselves from a homicidal maniac, congratulates itself for having supposedly having made everyone safer when what it actually did was to make easier for the maniac to carry out his mission unimpeded, and you conclude that what's wrong with our culture is that I point up the terrible irony of the story.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Katana]

It's a product of sociocultural inertia. Societies and civilizations are only held together by a commonality between individuals, people collectively set into motion conditions which erode that commonality, these events become more likely. Even irrespect of it, there's a fair chance someone with a chip on their shoulder will go postal.

I still don't see how the phenomenon would burn out. Seems like, if what you're saying is true, it's destined to continue indefinitely.

Question is, how would you suggest we reverse the cultural deterioration you describe?

 

[Lonewulf]

I couldn't agree more.

^--- You're obviously stupid. Cain says so.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Already posted this in Community, but it's good reading for anyone who wonders where actions like this come from.

Amok. (PDF)

It's not new, it's not strictly a product of culture, and it's not likely to go away.

 

[ThinBlueLine]

ThinBlueLine another one before i go sleepies.. if you want better sources i have them.. I suggest you read "Media Mythmakers". A great book i picked up at TAM, and i loved all but one section of it.

Thanks for all the references. Will check into them.

I am not all that fearful. I really did mean I anticipate more incidents of this kind because it seems, from the perspective of a terrorist (domestic included), an underexploited opportunity. Large number of targets, weak defenses, maximum psychological damage inflicted on society (victims being our children). Just figure that as each event occurs, it empowers another nutjob when he sees just how effective this type of attack is and a self-perpetuating cycle may begin. And helping feed this cycle are your very true words...

The media spins it and makes it look like school shootings and violence is up, the facts don't agree.

 

[Piscivore]

American culture has degenerated so far into decadence,

Would you be so kind as to explicate this statement a little further? Specifically, "degenerated" from what and what exactly constitutes "decadance"?

I usually hear this phrase from individuals who are uncomfortable with the notion of women wearing trousers.

 

[ThinBlueLine]

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Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

Thank you for the warm welcome, Katana! Your avatar is bewitching. Almost too so. Almost. I am surprised it is allowed on a site where rational discourse is an implied expectation!

 

[Hamradioguy]

I'll be curious to learn more about the shooter, it's generally a certain type that commits this kind of pointless act.

And no doubt you WILL hear more, much more in the coming days.

Someone-wish I could remember who- remarked after one of these shootings that it's a big mistake for the media to hype up details on such shooters. His take was that it could tend to prompt other unstable types to get their fame by a copycat act. He suggested that the media simply refer to the shooter as a pathetic, sick excuse for a human, and say no more. Not even give out his name. And then spend time celebrating the lives of the victims.

Tough to do maybe with a free press, but I kinda like that approach. Unfortunately, this shooter, like all the others, will get far more attention than he really deserves.

 

[Katana]

Thank you for the warm welcome, Katana! Your avatar is bewitching. Almost too so. Almost. I am surprised it is allowed on a site where rational discourse is an implied expectation!

Thanks, TBL.

Don't be fooled. As you get to know the place, you'll see that being rational isn't a constant amongst some of us.

modified to remove edited responses over actioned post

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero