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20 People Shot Dead on Virginia Tech Campus

Solus said:
Probably better to start a new thread on gun control instead of filling this one with endless argument. Out of respect for those who have died I would say.
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I agree, gun control is a seperate issue.
 
corplinx said:
Usually its the commies that bring up gun control right after one of these shootings, way to preempt them BPSCG.

However, I doubt such legislation would have made much of a difference since the percentage of people who pack when legally allowed is very low.
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It's been brought up countless times already in the media.

It is an inevitable part of discussions after incidents like this. I don't understand why BPSCG's raising it should be considered offensive.

ETA: In fact, I'm adding it to the tags.
 
Apparently, he chained the doors to the building closed to make it more difficult for people to flee.

Bastard.
 
corplinx said:
However, I doubt such legislation would have made much of a difference since the percentage of people who pack when legally allowed is very low.
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You may well be right; there's no way of knowing for sure.

The thing is, there isn't much to discuss when a shooting happens. We have body counts and names. There isn't much point to have a thread about it unless people want to bring up gun policy, mental health policy, or whatever they think played a part.

So stop acting all holier than thou.
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Agreed again. This forum is to discuss current events and social issues. Bar discussion of gun ownership in the US from this thread and all you have left is a virtual group hug about how terrible it is (and, lest anyone mistake my feelings about this, I'm as horrified as anyone), and a running tally - "...didja hear? It's up to 22..."

I didn't know we were supposed to be keeping score. And people call me an asshat.
 
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BPSCG said:
What social ill was solved, or even ameliorated, by banning guns on campus?

I was pointing up the fatuousness of claiming that we can make people safer by banning guns. In Washington, DC, it is illegal for anyone to have a gun, even in his own home, if he's not a law enforcement official. And yet Washington was, until recently, known as the "murder capital" of the US (I think New Orleans has the honor now).

Legislating against guns doesn't keep people from getting them and using them. All it does is make politicians feel good about having "done something," and get them the votes of fools who buy the snake oil they're selling on election day.
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Sadly, this is pretty much accurate.
 
BPSCG said:
I didn't know we were supposed to be keeping score. And people call me an asshat.
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Not everyone is calling you that, Beeps, but I take issue with the notion that we're keeping score. I think that posting what we find out as we find it out is just a way to keep the discussion going, or maybe it's a way to process it. I don't know, but by no means are we keeping score.

Sadly, as I was writing that, MSNBC confirmed 31 dead.

Horrible.
 
Fair enough my response was just the typical PC one, I forgot the nature of this forum. To respond to gun control then, I think they need more officers on campus that carry guns so this type of nonsense is prevented. I'm surprised the shooter was able to do so much damage with a two 9mm handguns. Is the type of gun confirmed?
 
BPSCG said:
The Virginia legislature kills a bill that would allow people to defend themselves from a homicidal maniac,
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Increasing the number of guns won't make anyone safer. People do not necessarily know how to use guns properly. My wife was at Dawson when the shootings happened here in Montréal, and she refuses to make a gun control issue out of it. If that guy wanted to hurt people, even the complete non-existence of guns would not have stopped him.

And, why not make another thread for the gun control discussion when this one was clearly a condolences/news type thread. Depressing that these shootings keep happening. :(
 
BPSCG said:
The Virginia legislature kills a bill that would allow people to defend themselves from a homicidal maniac, congratulates itself for having supposedly having made everyone safer when what it actually did was to make easier for the maniac to carry out his mission unimpeded, and you conclude that what's wrong with our culture is that I point up the terrible irony of the story.

Got it. :boggled:
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When will virginia legalize those nice auto flame throwers that work so well in removing car jacking in south africa?
 
Almo said:
And, why not make another thread for the gun control discussion when this one was clearly a condolences/news type thread. Depressing that these shootings keep happening. :(
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It's a thread started for the purpose of discussing a horrible event and whatever topics arise from that.
 
I know if any of my loved ones ever die in a horrible tragedy, I will draw so much comfort from the fact that a group of anonymous internet strangers kept themselves from discussing the political aspects of the situation in the same thread as the condolences I'll never see.
 
I have no problem with BP bringing up the gun control subject. But when the delightful Dana Perino, Bush's acting Press Secretary, weighs in likewise, it sticks in my craw.

''The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,'' Perino said, noting that Bush and Education Secretary Margaret Spellings held a conference on school gun violence last October. ''Certainly, bringing a gun into a school domitory and shooting ... is against the law and something someone should be held accountable for,'' Perino said.
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Does the president's first statement on this have to score political points for the NRA? He couldn't wait even a few hours before he starts to flog this point? I guess he can't help himself.

Oh, and did you know that shooting people at school is against the law and someone ought to be held accountable? Ya think!?!?

Oh, and where would we get the idea that Bush thinks all laws have to be followed? His words and deeds leave a lot of wiggle room.

Ass-hatism at its highest.
 
Katana said:
Apparently, he was carrying 2 9mm handguns which, according to MSNBC, require only a driver's license to acquire in Virginia.

What is odd is that the first shooting or couple of shootings occurred two hours before the worst of the rampage.

What the heck was going on during those two hours?
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That's a heck of a lot of hits though, with just two handguns. My old clips hold 15 rounds, so if he had the same, he still only had 30 rounds total. I'm a marksman and I doubt I could do that much damage with two 9mms.
 
Almo said:
Increasing the number of guns won't make anyone safer.
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And you know this because...

Reports are that he was lining people up and shooting them. Are you saying that if he was in the midst of a group of people, someone couldn't have plugged him from behind?

People do not necessarily know how to use guns properly.
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True, some don't. And some do. A lot of people take gun safety courses when they first purchase a gun (Mrs. BPSCG and I did), and spend some time on the firing range to get competent.

Washington, DC has a couple of hundred gun homicides every year, where gun ownership is almost completely forbidden. Somehow, the guys committing those murders have figured out how to plug someone. Are you claiming this is a skill beyond the capabilities of a college student?
 
You can't legislate sanity. Every time a tragic event of this nature happens, people want to know how it can be prevented, and that's only reasonable. However, there is no magic solution to the problem of disturbed individuals wanting to hurt others.


It's too early to tell, but it sounds as if mistakes might have been made by those in charge of campus security, mistakes that may have worsened the outcome. We may never know all the details.
 
The Vampire said:
That's a heck of a lot of hits though, with just two handguns. My old clips hold 15 rounds, so if he had the same, he still only had 30 rounds total. I'm a marksman and I doubt I could do that much damage with two 9mms.
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Reports are he lined up the victims and shot them each in the head.

The poor kids. They'll be scarred forever.
 
The Vampire said:
That's a heck of a lot of hits though, with just two handguns. My old clips hold 15 rounds, so if he had the same, he still only had 30 rounds total. I'm a marksman and I doubt I could do that much damage with two 9mms.
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Couldn't he have had more than one clip per gun and changed them at some point? How long would replacing an empty clip with a full one take on a gun like this?
 
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