The Money Masters

imstellar28 said:
For me personally, I am not okay with being even 1% slave.
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So things like roads and judges and courthouses "enslave you". If we didn't have all of those things (and militaries and police, etc, etc), you'd not pay any taxes but you'd be 100% slave.
 
Donal said:
If you don't like the system, cool. We can discuss it and try to find a better one. But lets not blame it on some invisible cabal.
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Its not an invisible cabal its just the banking elite.

On Sunday, December 23, 1913, two days before Christmas, while most of Congress was on vacation, President Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act into law. Wilson would later express profound regret over his tragic decision, stating:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world - no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Less than one year later Congress ratified the 16th Amendment creating the Internal Revenue Service which became the de-facto collection agency for the Federal Reserve System. Its only duty was to tax the income of citizens to make the interest payments for the U.S. Government loans that would soon follow.


http://www.fdrs.org/banking_history.html
 
imstellar28 said:
1. Location
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That's an overly simplistic answer. What about the location specifically? What makes it more desirable?

2. I don't see why it matters but I'm an electrical engineer
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It doesn't matter. I was just curious. Although I'm surprised that you never commented when I said (several times) that if you aren't happy with your income that you should get an education, get a job, and work hard.
 
Here’s a quote from Benjamin Franklin to English officials about the financial health of the Colonies: “We have no poor houses in the Colonies, and if we had, we would have no one to put in them, as in the Colonies there is not a single unemployed man, no poor and no vagabonds.”

When questioned on how this was possible, Franklin replied, “It is because, in the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. We call it Colonial Script, and we issue only enough to move all goods freely from the producers to the Consumers; and as we create our money, we control the purchasing power of money, and have no interest to pay.”
 
Think about our monetary system this way:

If a bank puts $1000 into circulation, there’s only $1000 out there to use, right? Now, if 10% interest is charged, that means they expect $1100 back, correct?

How in the world can you pay back $1100 to someone if there's only $1000 in existence for you to use? The short answer? You Cant!

The result is complete and inevitable slavery to money.
 
Well, here's the problems that I foresee:

1) I rather like having a police department, fire department, emergency medical services, public assistance medical insurance, the WIC program, paved roads, lit sidewalks, a military force (though that is a bit bloated), schools (though ours are vastly underfunded because no one here wants to pay teachers what they're worth), public recreation facilities, etc. Granted, taxes on things like gasoline, etc. do pay for a portion of it; but state-level income tax also pays for parts of all this as well.
2) Of course, since I'm not a taxpayer - in fact, I get paid back everything they took from me, plus interest, once a year - I don't suppose it matters at all. But that's another thing I rather like - having someone hold my money for a year (so that I don't waste it on fast food and cheap movies), using the interest to do things like hire people to pick up litter, etc., and then having them give me back my original money plus a bit in a nice, easily spent lump sum.
3) Returning the dollar to a gold-standard value: OK, if we did this, first we'd have to burn trillions of dollars. There just isn't enough gold in the world to distribute evenly, which means every American could have like 5 bucks. Meanwhile, houses would still cost thousands of dollars, rather than hundreds of thousands, but you'd be back to earning pennies a month, rather than hundreds of dollars.
So what tangible translation for the dollar COULD we use? Pretty much any standard you pick would be absurd today.
What's the REAL problem with the American Dollar right now? Too many people. That's the real problem. So who do we pick to eliminate from society, to make wealth mean something again?

TANSTAAFL.
 
imstellar28 said:
Its not an invisible cabal its just the banking elite.

On Sunday, December 23, 1913, two days before Christmas, while most of Congress was on vacation, President Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act into law. Wilson would later express profound regret over his tragic decision, stating:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world - no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Less than one year later Congress ratified the 16th Amendment creating the Internal Revenue Service which became the de-facto collection agency for the Federal Reserve System. Its only duty was to tax the income of citizens to make the interest payments for the U.S. Government loans that would soon follow.


http://www.fdrs.org/banking_history.html
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Just as an FYI, this is the second time you have referenced this quote. It is simply not true. Woodrow Wilson never stated this. Wikiquotes indicates this and provides sources and discussions. Scroll down to the bottom of the page labeled "Misattributed".

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson
 
imstellar28 said:
Here’s a quote from Benjamin Franklin to English officials about the financial health of the Colonies: “We have no poor houses in the Colonies, and if we had, we would have no one to put in them, as in the Colonies there is not a single unemployed man, no poor and no vagabonds.”

When questioned on how this was possible, Franklin replied, “It is because, in the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. We call it Colonial Script, and we issue only enough to move all goods freely from the producers to the Consumers; and as we create our money, we control the purchasing power of money, and have no interest to pay.”
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With all due respect, quoting respected people and pretending their opinion is relevent, authoratitive, and applicable is just wrong. It's bordering heavily on fallacy.

Under the assumption that Franklin's premise was true (that there was no poor people), and that his analysis was true... (two very big assumptions)... there's absolutely no reason to believe his analysis would apply to today. The economy of the US 200 years ago differs wildly from today.
 
imstellar28 said:
If a bank puts $1000 into circulation, there’s only $1000 out there to use, right? Now, if 10% interest is charged, that means they expect $1100 back, correct?

How in the world can you pay back $1100 to someone if there's only $1000 in existence for you to use? The short answer? You Cant!
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If I put $1000 into a bank, there's only $1000 in the bank, right? Now, if they give me 2% interest, that means I expect $1020 back, correct?

How in the world can they pay back $1020 to me if there's only $1000 in existence for them to use? The short answer? Your model sucks!

Look who's the slave now, bank of america! HAHA!!

-Antisophist, enslaving the Rothschild's since age 7 using the power of the savings account!
 
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Anti-sophist said:
If I put $1000 into a bank, there's only $1000 in the bank, right? Now, if they give me 2% interest, that means I expect $1020 back, correct?

How in the world can they pay back $1020 to me if there's only $1000 in existence for them to use? The short answer? Your model sucks!

Look who's the slave now, bank of america! HAHA!!

-Antisophist, enslaving the Rothschild's since age 7 using the power of the savings account!
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Where'd you get the intial $1000 to put in the bank? Do you print your own money?
 
imstellar28 said:
Here’s a quote from Benjamin Franklin to English officials about the financial health of the Colonies: “We have no poor houses in the Colonies, and if we had, we would have no one to put in them, as in the Colonies there is not a single unemployed man, no poor and no vagabonds.”

When questioned on how this was possible, Franklin replied, “It is because, in the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. We call it Colonial Script, and we issue only enough to move all goods freely from the producers to the Consumers; and as we create our money, we control the purchasing power of money, and have no interest to pay.”
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Hmmm only about 298,000,000 more people here since he said that.
 
Theres more of us and we have fancier toys but what has really changed? The only way to have a truely free economy is to have the people print money based on stored value and distribute it interest free.

The federal reserve system is a collection of private banks printing our money with no regard to stored value and charging us interest on it. As the above example has shown, this will only result in our slavery to the dollar.
 
imstellar28 said:
Theres more of us and we have fancier toys but what has really changed? The only way to have a truely free economy is to have the people print money based on stored value and distribute it interest free.

The federal reserve system is a collection of private banks printing our money with no regard to stored value and charging us interest on it. As the above example has shown, this will only result in our slavery to the dollar.
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So we'll just be slaves to the national debt then.
 
imstellar28 said:
Think about our monetary system this way:

If a bank puts $1000 into circulation, there’s only $1000 out there to use, right? Now, if 10% interest is charged, that means they expect $1100 back, correct?

How in the world can you pay back $1100 to someone if there's only $1000 in existence for you to use? The short answer? You Cant!

The result is complete and inevitable slavery to money.
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Are you saying that all of the money in existance is put into existance with interest expected back?
 
Ok, it appears that if wikipedia is correct there is no source for that quote but it appears that someone elaborated on his original speech The New Freedom and reworded what he said. From wiki "This quote seems to have spread widely on the internet, but is almost certainly bogus." [No source]. For one, this statement is not backed by a source, for two if we are talking about a conspiracy wouldn't we expect them to cover their tracks? :D Anyways, here is an excerpt from New Freedom which hints at something sinister:


"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world — no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."


And I do think his opinion is important because he was the man who signed the Federal Reserve Act into law.
 
imstellar28 said:
Theres more of us and we have fancier toys but what has really changed? The only way to have a truely free economy is to have the people print money based on stored value and distribute it interest free.

The federal reserve system is a collection of private banks printing our money with no regard to stored value and charging us interest on it. As the above example has shown, this will only result in our slavery to the dollar.
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These "private banks" are not private, and they're not for-profit. They are beholden to their mandate from the federal government, and they don't decide how much money is printed or how much interest is charged. That would be the board of governors.
 
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